AVERAGE LIFE OF YELLOW TANG - UPDATE

Well, I didn't get the GFI in this weekend ! Mother's day and other things.
I would be curious if any of the group tried the same measurments with a
digial meter.

The place I grabbed the ground was at the INPUT to my main water meter. (
this should be connected directly undergound to the street feed. I don't
think I have a better place to connect it. No 8 foot ground stakes.

I'll post my results when I get the GFCI installed. I agree with George that
if a small amount of current was flowing to ground the GFCI would probably
trip. Yes I could have the high voltage because of a sensitive Digital VOM -
it's a FLUKE 12. I'll see if I can borrow a cheap analog and try the
measurements Before I put in the GFCI.
Russ


"pausto" wrote in message
...
"Russ J." wrote:

I didn't realize my question would spark such a controversy!

Here is an update.:
My tank ( 75 gallon FO) is quite near the water meter into the house. I
have
a Fluke Digital VOM used for work. Model 12 -- pretty good unit. I
measured
the AC voltage from the copper inlet pipe to the tank water -- by
sticking
the probe into the water. Was I surprised. I measured 48 VOLTS AC !!!! I
then began unplugging equipment. First the heater. - dropped 6 volts to
42
VAC. Next the UV - Dropped 2 more volts. Then the Empereor 400 dropped
another 2 volts. Then the Flouresent lamp dropped 2 more volts. Then the
Eheim filter -- another 2 volts. Then the skimmer another 2 volts. When
EVERYTHING was unplugged - I still had a reading of 32 Volts AC. I put
the
ground probe in the water attached to the water line. Voltage went to
.009
Volts AC. I watched the fish to see if proximity to the probe changed
their
behavior - Nope. I reconnected everyhing and the voltage went to .011
VAC.
That's an increase of only 2 millivolts. I'm going to keep the ground
probe
in the tank and see if the LLE on the Tang begins to reverse. I'll post
my
results.
( I'll also be very careful not to drop anything in the water !)

Russ

Digital meters are notorious for detecting stray voltages that
have no appreciable current flow producing ability. Try
re-reading with a cheep analog meter (I keep one taped to the
back of my Fluke

Paul

George suspected you did not unplugged all devices
and this was the reason for your 32VAC readings...
Can you confirm you are 100% sure you unplugged them all ?

The other method than cheap-o-analog meter would be to
use your meter but bridge it with a 4 kOhm or similar
resistor and repeat your measurements. This would be
your Fluke pretending to be a cheap-o-analog meter
with low internal impedance like they normally are
instead of its normal impedance which goes into tents
or even hundreds of megaohms :-)

Check this out:
http://www.gmc-instruments.com/engli...metrahit1a.htm
This meter has input resistance: 20 kOhm / V=, 4 kOhm / V~
Let me know if you still have 32VAC on a 4kOhm resistor.
This would be something to worry about IMHO...

"George" wrote in message news:hxDfe.64970$NU4.30481@attbi_s22...
If you assume that the 32 VAC carries no current.
If it does, GFCI will likely trip.

There was no device in the water plugged into the wall.
So how could this 32VAC be real or how can it deliver
reasonable current? If it would you could power a small
heater with it and have free energy source ;-)

"Pszemol" wrote in message
...
"George" wrote in message
news:hxDfe.64970$NU4.30481@attbi_s22...
If you assume that the 32 VAC carries no current.
If it does, GFCI will likely trip.

There was no device in the water plugged into the wall.
So how could this 32VAC be real or how can it deliver
reasonable current? If it would you could power a small
heater with it and have free energy source ;-)

Well, according to him, there was nothing else plugged in, and if that is the
case, then something is inducing a voltage, as you suggested, or his meter is
reading stray voltage. As I've noted, if he missed something, that would
explain the 32 VAC. As for powering a small heater, that would be true if the
voltage had current!

"George" wrote in message news:M9Xfe.67991$r53.10059@attbi_s21...
Well, according to him, there was nothing else plugged in, and if that is the
case, then something is inducing a voltage, as you suggested, or his meter is
reading stray voltage. As I've noted, if he missed something, that would
explain the 32 VAC. As for powering a small heater, that would be true if the
voltage had current!

This is funny how it sounds "if the voltage had current"...
I have never heard such expression in my life :-)
But I guess I understand what you are trying to say...

R J wrote:

I'll see if I can borrow a cheap analog and try the
measurements Before I put in the GFCI.

Got a 12 volt automotive tester? I'd be curious to see if there's enough current
there to light it up.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Remember, in order for a GFCI to trip, any current that leaks
from one of the plugged in devices, has to be able to flow to
ground. This could be through the body of a grounded person
reaching into the tank, or through a ground probe installed in
the tank.

Once the GFCI is installed, any worrisome components should
readily show themselves. However, timing the installation for a
weekend, so you can keep half a vigilant eye on the system,
wouldn't be a bad idea.

Good luck. Let us know what you find.

Paul

R J wrote:

Well, I didn't get the GFI in this weekend ! Mother's day and other things.
I would be curious if any of the group tried the same measurments with a
digial meter.

The place I grabbed the ground was at the INPUT to my main water meter. (
this should be connected directly undergound to the street feed. I don't
think I have a better place to connect it. No 8 foot ground stakes.

I'll post my results when I get the GFCI installed. I agree with George that
if a small amount of current was flowing to ground the GFCI would probably
trip. Yes I could have the high voltage because of a sensitive Digital VOM -
it's a FLUKE 12. I'll see if I can borrow a cheap analog and try the
measurements Before I put in the GFCI.
Russ

"pausto" wrote in message
...
"Russ J." wrote:

I didn't realize my question would spark such a controversy!

Here is an update.:
My tank ( 75 gallon FO) is quite near the water meter into the house. I
have
a Fluke Digital VOM used for work. Model 12 -- pretty good unit. I
measured
the AC voltage from the copper inlet pipe to the tank water -- by
sticking
the probe into the water. Was I surprised. I measured 48 VOLTS AC !!!! I
then began unplugging equipment. First the heater. - dropped 6 volts to
42
VAC. Next the UV - Dropped 2 more volts. Then the Empereor 400 dropped
another 2 volts. Then the Flouresent lamp dropped 2 more volts. Then the
Eheim filter -- another 2 volts. Then the skimmer another 2 volts. When
EVERYTHING was unplugged - I still had a reading of 32 Volts AC. I put
the
ground probe in the water attached to the water line. Voltage went to
.009
Volts AC. I watched the fish to see if proximity to the probe changed
their
behavior - Nope. I reconnected everyhing and the voltage went to .011
VAC.
That's an increase of only 2 millivolts. I'm going to keep the ground
probe
in the tank and see if the LLE on the Tang begins to reverse. I'll post
my
results.
( I'll also be very careful not to drop anything in the water !)

Russ

Digital meters are notorious for detecting stray voltages that
have no appreciable current flow producing ability. Try
re-reading with a cheep analog meter (I keep one taped to the
back of my Fluke

Paul

"If he unplugged the appliances one by one and got a voltage drop each time
(which he did), it certainly does mean that the voltages are coming from the
appliances. "

It does not mean it is voltage with amps. Voltage does not mean it has current, as in
amps. The electric field so generated by the wires induces a single which is picked up by
a VOM. Such induced voltages produce amps in the Nano range. Stray voltage is not induced
voltage and is another and dangerous manner. Any electrical device in or near the water
can/will induce meaningless voltage. If you ground such water with a grounding probe such
induced voltage disappears. There is not one shred of evidence that such voltage does any
harm to fish what so ever, which long ago I also believed. The only fish that are effected
by stray voltage, not induced are sharks or fish that make electricity through their
muscles , such as electric catfish.. So, at one time, I believed the same as you. Do a
search on me here and you will see :-) I still wonder though if such induced voltage does
have an effect on fish.

"A ground fault interupter is what I have been recommending in nearly all of my
posts about this issue, including the first one I posted regarding this issue.
If YOU had been paying attention to my posts a little more carefully, you would
have noted that."

LOL see me arguing that. I read your posts.You are again starting an argument based on
nothing I have said. See mine, I also always advise the use of a GFCI and GP. The issue of
this is not GFIC or a GP but voltage measure and what they mean.


"have posted a
couple of articles about it right here in this newsgroup"

Lets see them. If they are the ones I have posted here and on many forums then you need
to go back and read them. As they clearly explain it, to include test result and readings
of such voltage all done by some one who know what they are talking about, EE's...And that
is really not you or I

"Do you want to shut the **** up and stop trolling me, or what? "


Shut the **** up, such childish language........ trolling ? I like trolling you to shut
you the **** up and stop misleading people here on your line of BS and constant arguing
with people and looooong ass threads of arguing. If you were correct I would not be
correcting you. I think you are not what you claim to be and are just a snot- noised kid
that thinks he know it all, just ask me I'm Geeroge.

Boomer

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Former US Army Bomb Technician (EOD)
Member; IABTI, NATEODA, WEODF, ISEE & IPS

If You See Me Running You Better Catch-Up