Filtering a big pond

"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
I guess I'll just have to stumble on then. In a while from now you may be
hearing me tell people exactly why they shouldn't use a set up like this
from personal experience. Then again, you may be a bit surprised to see
pictures about how such a rig can work very well.
============================
Please post the URLs to any pics you take of this pond. I'd love to see it.

I'm picturing it surrounded by Lotus, water lilies in the middle and
inexpensive rosy reds and a some goldfish swimming in the shallows, maybe
even a few koi...... you'll soon have frogs, herons, turtles and other
visitors.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
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Hard as a lot have tried to tellyou what is the right way and the
worng way your an idiot of the highest quality.......YOu do not have a
workingknowledge of how and what pumps do or how aeration is achied
and why....you conuter any fact with your ideology that is assinine
and won;t hold water.....On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:05:18 -0500, Galen
Hekhuis wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:42:01 GMT, (Roy) wrote:

As long as the pond is essentially unstocked, all he has to do is a
demand test, and hit the pond with that dose......no need to be extra
cautious of gallons, if there is not any critters in it. and PP is no
more dangerous than opening a container of salt if a little common
sense is used......If I had a pond as such that was just constructed,
and it had unknown junk and god only knows what else in it, I
certaoinly would be doseing it with PP to sterilize it and knock out
any nasites that may be in it........Better to do it when its
unstocked than when its full of critters......Its always better to
start off with a clean slate than to have to jump in mid stream and
straighten things up later on......

I may do that, and then again, I may not. Being a cave explorer, and being
extremely sensitive to underwater speleology especially here, I am very
reluctant to be putting out any kind of chemical anywhere on the ground (or
in a pond). I'm even a little skittish about septic sewage treatment
systems, though I'm far less concerned about human waste than what other
goodies people throw in toilets

PP is not a chemical that is going to do anything harm unless its
organic inorganic crud.........and its soon dissipated and turned
inert and you can drink the water after a PP treatment as its free of
any disease or bacterial causing organisims.......its whats in those
survival straws that are sold that you can literally stick in a
cesspool and drink germ free water or close to to it...
As to your using an external pump........big mistake in a mucd bottom
pond......BIG BIG Mistake......YOu may have a pond in a local where
other folks have a pond but theirs may have a liner, and the
environment is similar, but your gonna have so much more critters in
that natural mud bottom pond that is gonna take up residence in your
submerged plumbing lines and its not going to take too long before
they are all inundated with all kinds of growths from aquatic
critters, which will eventually work their way into the filter or
basket strainer and make for some nice blockages.......Its inevitable.

As for the line which runs down the bank to the intake, we are talking some
20-30 feet of pipeline at the most, not exactly a budget buster if it has
to be replaced, but I would imagine drying it out and cleaning it would
probably suffice. The intake strainer itself can likewise be dried and
cleaned. I would imagine the underground line can likewise be dried and/or
cleaned. Everything else should be pretty exposed and easy to get to. Mud
and silt may be a problem, though, I guess I'll find out.

Your sump type pump you have ben usuing is destined to be trashed if
yur gonna run it continuously...its not designed for it, no sump type
pump typically is, its intermeittent duty.

Other pumps that I have seen advertised with the magic words "continuous
duty" look much like mine, and the internal design is almost identical.
There are many, many pumps that work fairly continuously that may not have
the words "continuous duty" in their ads. Perhaps the term "sump pump" is
not entirely correct, although that is exactly how some of these
"continuous duty" pumps are advertised.]
Looks is not everything.......just look at current draw and ware gauge
as well as a host of other things, all internal that yy are not able
to take apart to see as they are hermetically sealed......But I guess
you posess super powers that enable you to see inside and you actually
know better than the manufacturer of those pumps as to how they can or
should be operated..one more thing to prove your stupidity in
comprehension and abilitliy to grasp whats stated...



Forget about your total
gallon capacity or how large an area you have and just get a pump that
will provide sufficient head pressure to enable it to spray water
upwards and outwards to make the surface agitated, and you have your
problem solved........Recirculating or turning over your entire pond
is just not feasible. In time it will turn over and do so much better
with surface aeration, not overall turnover unles syou like mud and
current induced holes and washout......

Its all in the way the pumps are hooked up and operated and what type
of aeration is being provided.........

Now there is a contradiction in your own statement. You tell me that
recirculating the water is not feasible, then in the next sentence you tell
me it will do so over time.


Its possible to get surface agitation witout disturbing the
sediement..if the pumnp is the cxorrect type and its mounted
correctly, but why go through all that **** when your only going to
argue against it as being contrary towhat you want to do.......You
pulling water from the water column and destratifying it is what has
to be done......not sucking up mud as you imply.
NO more froom me on your project, I said it more than once, so either
take it or leave it. Its getting old stating over and over the same
stuff, and if you were to contact perhaps the best authority on your
or any other pond, you would get the same identical info that was
given here. That authority is University of Florida........its free
info from me and the U of F dude, so take it or leave it , it is not
costing you anything to use it......However odds are your gonna pay
down the orad when you follow info presented by idiiots like Koi lo
who does not have the first clue or experieince with any natural
pondsm cept maybe a mud puddle in her driveway, and all those pack a
sack storage boxes she steals to use as fish ponds..........

Good luck to you in what ever you decide to do.............bye!

I guess I'll just have to stumble on then. In a while from now you may be
hearing me tell people exactly why they shouldn't use a set up like this
from personal experience. Then again, you may be a bit surprised to see
pictures about how such a rig can work very well.

You say you have NO run off or other means of nutrients, yet you have
s stream or spring you have yet to find that somehow manages to get
into yur pond and keep it topped off........yea right dream on joker,
dream on, I have beach front property in Florida for sale for $50
bucks an acre to... So just keep on stumbling on, its your back not
mine, its your cash not mine, its your pond not mine so what the
hellyou do with it is your ball game.......YOU asked for help and
suggesitions was pointed in the direction to find it, and you still
have to freaking argue about it, so go take your mud hole and and do
what you gotta do...Only think I lied about in what I have posted was
I was not going to reposnd to any more of your babbling, but this time
I am done.....enjoy your mudhole and may it be infested with whatever
blows, runs, falls your way and that your waters may reach
temperatures sufficiient to scal the skin off your backside if you
fall out of that Kayack, and when it turns into a stinking mosquito
infested, lotus and lilly and cat tail entangled mess, you can say,
yep thats just what I was looking for..............I really think you
are a predescessor of cromoagnon.......as you do not have any common
sense except to argue a valid point which has substanially more merit
and credibility, to do what yu are looking to do..so do what you must,
and congratulations, in all my years your the first to ****** their
way into a kill file not due to crap posts but for my not wanting to
deal with a babbling freaking idiot.
Even Koi lo has not managed to get into my kill files as hard as they
try, but your a first.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

--
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The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

So, your mudhole holds a whopping 28xxx.x gal of water according to
your specs....still a mud hole........and still quite the idiot that
does not digest info.....If it could have been done on the cheaper
ewnd of it like your looking to do with improper equipment and setup,
I think the three ponds I take care of that are spectacular in water
quality / clarity and loaded with fish and other critters that are
free of the majority of crud foks back yard ponds or ponds done on the
cheap by uneducated types usually contain, then perhaps I may see what
your trying to do, but unfortunately your in left field......and in a
ball game only your palying in with koi lo as the manager, and
destined to fail........or at the least have a 40 foot diameter
cesspool

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:40:09 -0500, Galen Hekhuis
wrote:
The bulldozer and front end loader got finished and now what once was a 40
ft small tree lined wet garbage dump (sort of a pond) is now a 40 foot in
diameter mud puddle with an average depth of about 3 feet. I don't think
the water is *too* polluted because as the thing got cleared out the
landscape people found a bunch of frogs, turtles, and at least two
cottonmouth snakes, one being about 5 feet long. That was a little
exciting for me, but the guy on the bulldozer didn't seem too impressed,
and he made rather short work of the snake with his bulldozer blade. I
guess those folks are quite used to running into snakes. Anyway, I looked
at pumps and filters for large ponds and found that about the largest I
could find was for about a 5000 gal pond, and it seems mine is a bit larger
than that. I don't have any illusions about having crystal clear water
flowing in the pond, but it seems to me that constantly moving the water
through some sort of filter would eventually change it from being just a
mud puddle into something a little more eye appealing. Would circulating
the water through a series of "settling tanks" (coarse gravel, fine gravel,
then something like sand) be of any use? Are there plants that I can ring
my mud puddle with that would help? I live in northern Florida, so brutal
winters are not exactly a problem but I also don't want to go down in
history as the guy who planted something like kudzu around his pond, only
to have it escape and become a serious pest. Also, do those "barley ball"
and other "pond treatments" I see advertised do any good?

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

--
\\\|///
( @ @ )
-----------oOOo(_)oOOo---------------


oooO
---------( )----Oooo----------------
\ ( ( )
\_) ) /
(_/
The original frugal ponder! Koi-ahoi mates....

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:35:07 -0600, "Koi-lo"
wrote:

Please post the URLs to any pics you take of this pond. I'd love to see it.

I'm picturing it surrounded by Lotus, water lilies in the middle and
inexpensive rosy reds and a some goldfish swimming in the shallows, maybe
even a few koi...... you'll soon have frogs, herons, turtles and other
visitors.

Snicker. That's sort of what I'm picturing too, although it may just turn
out to remain a big mud puddle. As far as the frogs go, I've already seen
one. It jumped into the pond as I was walking around it. It wouldn't
surprise me very much if there were others already. When the bulldozer
folks were here they found a bunch of frogs, the wife of the guy driving
the bulldozer took three or four of the largest bullfrogs home with her.
She says they make good pets, and that when tame they follow her kids
around as they swim in their pond at home. I can see turtles (lots of
them) fussing around in my other two ponds, I don't imagine it will be long
at all before they come to this one. I had about a five foot alligator
living in the back pond for awhile, I hope I don't get any visitors like
that up close to the house. I get a lot of waterfowl stopping by,
especially now. I'm not too far from the Suwannee River, and during duck
season a lot of the critters fly over here away from the hunters. I'm not
philosophically opposed to hunting, I just never got thrilled by it and
there are other things I'd rather be doing.

I have duckweed growing in my other two ponds, but none in this one. How
serious is this? I tried looking up the stuff, but can't seem to find an
answer about how this stuff is spread. I already clean my kayak hull in
between putting it in different bodies of water, but are fish and stuff
likely to spread it? Or is this much ado about nothing? One site said
that duckweed wasn't a problem at all, that it is easily controlled with
this Sonic additive, but like I say, I am rather reluctant to throw stuff
in the water. Other sites say it could be an important source of protein.
I don't really care, I just think it doesn't look very pretty and would
rather not hassle with it if I can avoid it.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
We are the CroMagnon of the future

Hard as a lot have tried to tellyou what is the right way and the
worng way your an idiot of the highest quality.......YOu do not have a
workingknowledge of how and what pumps do or how aeration is achied
and why....you conuter any fact with your ideology that is assinine
and won;t hold water.....

I think many of us, in our learning days could have had this said to or
about us, especially me. Until you get down and dirty, and see the affects
of what works in one's situation, it is hard to visualize what other
people, who know, are trying to teach. IOWs, and IMHO, give the guy a
break.

I know I started out with a Little Giant 1/2 hp at the bottom of the pond
hooked to a garden hose. I didn't know the reason I wasn't getting much
flow was due to the diameter & friction of the garden hose. Figured I just
needed a bigger pump. Then there was the constant clogging of the
unprotected pump and the hose, what a PITA!

I can't say if the internet would have helped me, or if I too would have
been stubborn (clueless) about things... especially when those changes
involved money. Quite honestly I don't think anyone in my koi club
mentioned the pump/hose problem, but common sense makes me wonder if I had
selective hearing at the time? I do know that I'd been going to meetings,
reading Koi USA & Water Gardening, and yet it took DH only one article to
design, and DS to build, a proper filtration system for my pond set up.
Why? Because they had the experience to make sense of it, that I
couldn't.... I think I even skipped over articles like that back then.

I do agree, in the long run, that a fountain or fountains with the pump
suspended directly underneath the float would be the way to go in a mud
pond. But who's to say that what the OP has in mind won't work to HIS
satisfaction. I say go for it, and I can't wait to see the pictures!!! )

Btw, pictures help the most when teaching, imo. Anyone got that website
where it showed a diagram of the pump suspended directly beneath the float?
~ jan

--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

"Galen Hekhuis" wrote in message
...
Snicker. That's sort of what I'm picturing too, although it may just turn
out to remain a big mud puddle. As far as the frogs go, I've already seen
one. It jumped into the pond as I was walking around it. It wouldn't
surprise me very much if there were others already. When the bulldozer
folks were here they found a bunch of frogs, the wife of the guy driving
the bulldozer took three or four of the largest bullfrogs home with her.
She says they make good pets, and that when tame they follow her kids
around as they swim in their pond at home. I can see turtles (lots of
them) fussing around in my other two ponds, I don't imagine it will be
long
at all before they come to this one. I had about a five foot alligator
living in the back pond for awhile, I hope I don't get any visitors like
that up close to the house.

I'm too far north to see gators, but if I did I would have my property
fenced - PRONTO! A 5 footer can do a lot of damage to someone. :-(

I get a lot of waterfowl stopping by,
especially now. I'm not too far from the Suwannee River, and during duck
season a lot of the critters fly over here away from the hunters. I'm not
philosophically opposed to hunting, I just never got thrilled by it and
there are other things I'd rather be doing.

I'm with you on that one. There used to be a lot of illegal hunting here
before it became built-up. That's stopped now. The local yahoos would come
in, hide their pickup trucks off the road and hunt deer and water birds,
mainly.

I have duckweed growing in my other two ponds, but none in this one. How
serious is this? I tried looking up the stuff, but can't seem to find an
answer about how this stuff is spread.

I read somewhere that it can invade a pond by being carried on the feathers
and feet of water birds.

I already clean my kayak hull in
between putting it in different bodies of water, but are fish and stuff
likely to spread it? Or is this much ado about nothing?

Any pond with koi or goldfish will not be really infested with the type they
eat. However there's a type fish don't eat. I don't know the names of
these different duckweed. I grow the plain edged type in flat tubs for my
GF and koi. I can't see how fish would spread it from pond to pond but
birds could, and possibly water turtles.

One site said
that duckweed wasn't a problem at all, that it is easily controlled with
this Sonic additive, but like I say, I am rather reluctant to throw stuff
in the water. Other sites say it could be an important source of protein.

It also sucks up nutrients and shades the water, starving out green scum
algae.

I don't really care, I just think it doesn't look very pretty and would
rather not hassle with it if I can avoid it.

Find out what type it is. If it's the smooth edged duckweed add some cheap
feeder goldfish. They consider it the finest salad on earth. :-) If it's
the one with ruffly edges they probably wont touch it.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
NEW PAGE: Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o