Too many fish?

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...

"Jay Kaner" wrote

I'd appreciate any advice

Which you've all given, and a big thank you to you all for that.

After reading all the replies it seems the tank is a bit over crowded.
Tho' with regular water changes, as per the advice, it shouldn't be too
bad.

I bought this tank to see how I would enjoy keeping fish, which I do. I
have room for a 4 foot tank and thought if I enjoy having the fish then I
would upgrade to a 4 foot tank and sell the smaller one.

But from what i can gather it's not the best idea to have the coldwater
fish with the tropical ones ( the fella I bought it off said that wasn't a
problem keeping them together. He said you couldn't keep tropical fish in
a cold water set up but you could keep cold water fish in a tropical set
up)

So what I am thinking now is to get a 4foot tank and put the tropical fish
in there and keep the smaller tank as a cold water one for the cold water
fish. I *have* to keep them because my daughter loves the fantail and
the black moors (because the black moors look like E.T!! they're E.T 1 and
E.T 2)

All the fish I've added are tropical, I know that for sure. And out of
the ones that came with the tank, the fighting fish is too.
The fantail, the orfe (that's what the guy i bought it off said it was
called) and the black moors are cold water (please let me know if I am
wrong with this) It's just the black widow i'm not sure which tank to put
him/her in.

With a bit of luck I should be getting the bigger tank soon. I'm keeping
my eyes open for one in the local classified ads and ebay for when the
right price/distance to pick up comes along.

I think under the circumstances this is about the best way for getting the
best balance. Separate tanks for cold and tropical. I won't get the
neon's till then.

Thanks again to all who replied. Very helpful...even if some of it went
whoosh!!!! Like i said, I am new to this. But I'm finding it enjoyable
so I will learn as I go along.


Its a nice hobby to have.....relaxing when things are going well, stressful
other times, but always enjoyable
And dont feel bad about it, at least you took the time to find out what was
best for them, and are going to invest in a better tank, more then what a
lot of people do....so its all good
I am in complete understading about kids & goldfish, i started my son a
goldfish tank with moors, fantail, redcaps, telescope eyes, and he enjoys
them so much, now he has me talked into having a pond in the summer for
them.
Watch the betta while in the tank with the goldfish......sometimes they get
picky
Nik

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...

"Koi-Lo" wrote in message
...

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
news
One other question I meant to ask in that last post. When doing the
water changes and gravel cleaning is it best to remove the fish? That's
what I've been doing so far, but could this be done with the fish still
in the tank?
=====================
NO!

Do you mean "no" to doing this with the fish still in the tank? Or to
removing the fish beforehand? I'm not sure which you mean.

NO NOT remove the fish while doing it.

Just use the gravel vac, remove the water you feel you want to replace
and replace with fresh water of a close temperature.

The tank takes 8 buckets of water to fill (the guy gave me the bucket that
he's always used) so what I've been doing is once a week I take the fish
out into a big bowl filled with tank water. Then I vacuum the gravel
until I've filled two buckets with the mucky water and that's it. No more
than that. Then I replace those two buckets with the same amount making
sure the water is a similar temp. Then i replace the fish and the old
tank water from the bowl that i put them in whilst i did the gravel
cleaning.

Do the same thing but don't remove the fish.

Be sure to use a dechlorinator or something to remove chloramines.

I've been using the stuff the guy had been using. He had half a bottle of
'Tap Safe' left which he gave me. He said to use a capful per bucket.
It says on the bottle that it's for goldfish, but the guy said it's ok to
use with tropical fish because it hadn't harmed the betta. Would you say
it would be better to buy a tropical (assuming there is one) 'tap safe'
product rather than keep using the goldfish one?

They're pretty much all the same - they deactivate the chlorine and some
will do the chloramines as well. That's all that matters.

To be fair, I've had the tank nearly 3 months and all the fish seem
healthy. So far (touch wood) we've had no casualties...tho' how much that
has to do with good luck i'm not sure. I'd rather it be down to doing the
right thing than luck, tho'!!

I agree!
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two Koi-Lo's on the Aquaria Groups.*
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Altum wrote:
MangroveJack wrote:

I've kept several hundred neon tetras very succesfully in an aquarium
that size before, along with a male betta and a few corys and
bristleys. I would never have thought to put any oxygen-hungry goldfish
in with them, though. Get another aquarium if you are serious about
keeping warm-water soft-acidic type fish.

How'd you do that? It must have been a spectacular tank with that many
neons - I've always wanted a tank full of neons or cardinals. If you
don't mind my asking, how long did you run that setup?

No, I don't mind at all. I used to run a small pet and aquarium
business which I built into a large aquarium and pet business, learning
everything the hard way, lol. Wish I knew about the internet back then.
A tank full of neons and especially cardinals is a sight to behold,
though to be fair having so many aquariums to look after and developing
an interest in the larger more colourful cichlids over time, I guess
the effect was kind of wasted on me.

Whenever neons or cardinals were on special, I'd make sure to stock
right up. The tanks they went into only held 55 litres (not sure what
that is in US gallons, I'd usually estimate it by dividing by 4, which
is not accurate but pretty close). I'd keep it well planted and would
usually have to medicate more as a rule rather than an exception. Tetra
disease would usually be rife in such shipments, which usually took as
much as twelve hours to arrive from the time of packing at the
wholesalers.

I forget exactly which treatment I used to treat tetra disease but I
can recall it was a green powder I'd have to get specifically from the
vets. Treatment was also trial and error but out of a shipment of 300
fish, I thought it was a good result to lose no more than 10 to 20
within the first week, by which time they had settled in and I felt
comfortable selling them again. With a huge Java Fern dominating the
tank, and a bright blue background, it looked spectacular.

So although I did run these setups (usually maximum 150 cardinals due
to cost) for several years, the numbers were admittedly constantly
being reduced by sales. I would say a three-foot (100 litre) aquarium
would be more suitable for a school of 300 tetras on a permanent basis,
with lots and lots of live plants, corydora catfish bobbing around on
the bottom, a pair of bristlenose in the driftwood features, and a
25-30% water change every week.

And for Jay, who asked, NEVER remove the fish from the aquarium unless
you have to steralise it for some strange reason. Make sure to keep the
heater below the water level at all times, and SMALL regular water
changes are far more beneficial than large, irregular water changes.
Unless all your fish are dropping off in front of your eyes, consider
30% to be a maximum amount at any time. I've never had a problem adding
the water directly from the tap, adding dechlorinator to the tank, and
a small amount of salt for ALL fish at every water change (more for
goldys and live-bearers), but admittedly, the climate I live in is very
mild and never gets that cold. I would use a large storage tank to heat
and treat the water first if I was in a colder environment.

I wouldn't have though to try more than 50 or so neons in a 20 gallon
tank, although I think I had about 40 guppies in my planted 10 gallon
for a while. I was changing 50% of the water twice a week to keep them
healthy and growing.

One thing I failed to mention is that I'd usually get small neons at
first, so that by the time they had reached full size (about an inch)
their number would be less than 100. Since they are such a small fish,
use next to no oxygen, and hardly pollute the water at all (number ONE
rule, NEVER OVERFEED your fish, healthy fish SHOULD always look
hungry), I would think that with adequate filtration, something that
neutralizes ammonia, 100 to 150 would not be too many in a tank that
size, and would look spectacular.

I tended not to do too dramatic a water change with my guppies as our
water supply was very alkaline but very soft, and guppies would always
suffer from too rapid a change in water hardness. They would always get
extra salt plus live-bearer salt which I found was very hard to
overdose them on, if not impossible. I'm currently breeding lots of
platies and they seem to be fine with just a handful of swimming pool
salt every water-change (and most of their ponds are outdoors, and
heavily neglected, yet they thrive).


BTW, I didn't realize you were posting from Google. To quote someone's
post and reply, click on the "show options" link at the top of the post.
Then click the new "Reply" link that appears at the top of the post.
The quoted content is there, prefaced with "".

Thanks heaps for the tip. I'm quite new to google groups still. Always
learning as they say... he not busy being born, is busy dying. lol.


--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

"MangroveJack" wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks heaps for the tip. I'm quite new to google groups still. Always
learning as they say... he not busy being born, is busy dying. lol.
====================
There are free newsservers you can use which are 100% better than posting
through Google. There are a few you don't even need to sigh up for - just
add them to OE and off you go! :-)
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Nikki" wrote

Its a nice hobby to have.....relaxing when things are going well,
stressful other times, but always enjoyable

Yeah, I'm enjoying it immensely. It was a bit of an impulse buy. I've
always enjoyed looking at tropical fish in other peoples tanks...then a
fella i work with's neighbour was selling his because he was moving into a
retirement home. It was a really good set up for the price, so I thought
why not!!!

And dont feel bad about it, at least you took the time to find out what
was best for them, and are going to invest in a better tank, more then
what a lot of people do....so its all good

Yeah, well, I got a bit carried away with the fish at first. It was great
fun going around the pet shops with my daughter, letting her choose the fish
for the tank. But now I know it's going to be a perminent addition to our
lives I thought I'd better start looking at how to care for them properly.
I would with any pet. And NG's like this are the perfect place to learn and
get advice from, so here I am.

I am in complete understading about kids & goldfish, i started my son a
goldfish tank with moors, fantail, redcaps, telescope eyes, and he enjoys
them so much, now he has me talked into having a pond in the summer for
them.

Heh!!! It's great. My little one loves it. She'll love it even more
when I get the bigger tank. That one will be mine and i'll 'give' her this
one with the cold water fish to look after...because she's a 'big girl'
now!! lol.
She likes those fish more anyway, because of the way they 'interact' more
with the nibbling and the taking food from her fingertips.

Watch the betta while in the tank with the goldfish......sometimes they
get picky

Right. Will do. Tho' I have to say out of all the fish in the tank, the
betta is *the* most chilled out of fish. I've never seen it swim anything
faster than a graceful stroll around the tank!! Even at feeding time, all
the other fish seem to get all excited but the betta just ambles on up
seemingly without a care in the world. He seems more Jamaican than
Japanese....

"Koi-Lo" wrote in message
...

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
...

"Koi-Lo" wrote in message
...

"Jay Kaner" wrote in message
news One other question I meant to ask in that last post. When doing the
water changes and gravel cleaning is it best to remove the fish?
That's what I've been doing so far, but could this be done with the
fish still in the tank?
=====================
NO!

Do you mean "no" to doing this with the fish still in the tank? Or to
removing the fish beforehand? I'm not sure which you mean.

NO NOT remove the fish while doing it.

Righty-oh. That's great. Like i said in another post, that makes life a
bit easier!!

Cheers!!

"Koi-Lo" wrote in
:


Thanks heaps for the tip. I'm quite new to google groups still.
Always learning as they say... he not busy being born, is busy dying.
lol.
====================
There are free newsservers you can use which are 100% better than
posting through Google. There are a few you don't even need to sigh
up for - just add them to OE and off you go! :-)


I use Xnews it is free and works great. Personally just never could stand
OE.

That is if you IP offers newsgroups.

MangroveJack wrote:

snip
I forget exactly which treatment I used to treat tetra disease but I
can recall it was a green powder I'd have to get specifically from the
vets. Treatment was also trial and error but out of a shipment of 300
fish, I thought it was a good result to lose no more than 10 to 20
within the first week, by which time they had settled in and I felt
comfortable selling them again. With a huge Java Fern dominating the
tank, and a bright blue background, it looked spectacular.

This sounds like NetMax's stories of store tanks full of neons and
cardinals. I love how they shoal in stores.

So although I did run these setups (usually maximum 150 cardinals due
to cost) for several years, the numbers were admittedly constantly
being reduced by sales. I would say a three-foot (100 litre) aquarium
would be more suitable for a school of 300 tetras on a permanent basis,
with lots and lots of live plants, corydora catfish bobbing around on
the bottom, a pair of bristlenose in the driftwood features, and a
25-30% water change every week.

Wow. One of these years I'm going to set up a cardinal tank. People
overlook them because they're so common, but all of my community tanks
have had a shoal of cardinals or neons. Maybe I'll start replacing my
short-lived fish with cardinals as they die.

snip

I tended not to do too dramatic a water change with my guppies as our
water supply was very alkaline but very soft, and guppies would always
suffer from too rapid a change in water hardness. They would always get
extra salt plus live-bearer salt which I found was very hard to
overdose them on, if not impossible. I'm currently breeding lots of
platies and they seem to be fine with just a handful of swimming pool
salt every water-change (and most of their ponds are outdoors, and
heavily neglected, yet they thrive).

My water is hard, so I don't even have to salt livebearers. It's very
convenient. These were show guppies so I was feeding pretty heavily. I
had tons of watersprite and baby's tears in the tank soaking up nitrate too.

Thanks heaps for the tip. I'm quite new to google groups still. Always
learning as they say... he not busy being born, is busy dying. lol.

You're welcome. Your ISP may provide a usenet server. If they do, you
might enjoy using a newsreader like Thunderbird, Free Agent, or Outlook
Express. They give you filtering capabilities and organize the threads
much better.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

"Thoeny" none wrote in message
...
I use Xnews it is free and works great. Personally just never could stand
OE.

That is if you IP offers newsgroups.
===============
I love OE6. It's so easy to use. I tried a few others and couldn't figure
out how they work, probably because I couldn't understand the helpfiles.
None of them were intuitive. I wish I was more of a computer nerd.
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:53:15 -0000, Thoeny none wrote:

"Koi-Lo" wrote in
:


Thanks heaps for the tip. I'm quite new to google groups still.
Always learning as they say... he not busy being born, is busy dying.
lol.
====================
There are free newsservers you can use which are 100% better than
posting through Google. There are a few you don't even need to sigh
up for - just add them to OE and off you go! :-)


I use Xnews it is free and works great. Personally just never could stand
OE.

That is if you IP offers newsgroups.

Good newsreader, and still free. Quite similar to Agent in its layout,
if I recall. I love Agent, but I loved it more back when it was free.

-- Mister Gardener

For Killfile FAQs visit
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