humane killing of a 3" goldfish please

You don't need to use alcohol with the clove oil. It works just fine on it's
own if you shake it up well with a bit of tank water in a jar prior to
using. I should imagine that the alcohol would cause distress to the fish.


"Donald Kerns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some
on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive.
one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid


OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

Folks,

First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have two
receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
totally.

A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish in a
towel and whacking it on a stone paver.

Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen, get out
the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head with a
large butcher knife.

Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32 degree
water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.

So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way is
really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you seeing
your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it and
will never do it again.

Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag it
and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just make sure
you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully, your
freezer will freeze the water over night.

In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist person
to do this.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Donald Kerns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some
on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive.
one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid


OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so sad...
....
About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
wacking
a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
took 4 Grand slams to
put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
....Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Folks,

First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have two
receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
totally.

A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish in a
towel and whacking it on a stone paver.

Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen, get
out
the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head with a
large butcher knife.

Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
degree
water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.

So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way is
really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
seeing
your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it and
will never do it again.

Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag it
and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just make
sure
you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
your
freezer will freeze the water over night.

In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist person
to do this.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Donald Kerns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub some
on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are sensitive.
one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid


OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

Kodiak,

I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.

The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the fish
was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken, the
chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
the place.

HTH

Tom L.L.

Tom L.L.
=====================
"Kodiak" wrote in message
. ..
Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so sad...
...
About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
wacking
a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
took 4 Grand slams to
put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
...Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Folks,

First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have two
receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
totally.

A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish in
a
towel and whacking it on a stone paver.

Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen, get
out
the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head with
a
large butcher knife.

Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
degree
water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.

So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way is
really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
seeing
your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
and
will never do it again.

Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
it
and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just make
sure
you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
your
freezer will freeze the water over night.

In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
person
to do this.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Donald Kerns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most likely
isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
some
on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
sensitive.
one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid


OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college. ;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

I have to tell you a story about one of my Bettas I had... My cat knocked
over his bowl before we got home... A three foot drop, There was but a
little insurmountable puddle of water he was laying in, my best guess he was
there for about 20 mins to half an hour. I thought man, this fellow is
toast... To my suprise he wiggled a bit, I jumped back a little suprised,
scooped him of the floor and into a tank, much to my suprise, he was
alive... I know Bettas have a very intresting method of breathing, but never
thought it was this good.. Unfortunantly his dismise came a few monthes
later when he got terribly sick, and well the cat left us a short while
back, seems the local coyotes enjoyed him ( both I actually find rather
saddening ).

Timmer... Cdn in Cali
"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Kodiak,

I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.

The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the
fish
was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken,
the
chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
the place.

HTH

Tom L.L.

Tom L.L.
=====================
"Kodiak" wrote in message
. ..
Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so
sad...
...
About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
wacking
a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
took 4 Grand slams to
put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
...Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Folks,

First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have
two
receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
totally.

A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish
in
a
towel and whacking it on a stone paver.

Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen,
get
out
the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head
with
a
large butcher knife.

Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
degree
water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.

So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way
is
really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
seeing
your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
and
will never do it again.

Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
it
and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just
make
sure
you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
your
freezer will freeze the water over night.

In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
person
to do this.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Donald Kerns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most
likely
isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
some
on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
sensitive.
one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid


OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I
will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one
gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college.
;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

Tom,
I don't think it was nerves, after the second blow i thought I had him.
15 minutes later i saw the fish move again. then i wacked it again, and 5
minutes later it
moved again. I don't think nerves can last that long. Those freshwater fish
are amazing.

Salt water fish are the opposite. Caught a 15lb Bonita (small tuna) off the
Carolina banks..
straight off the beach with a long fishing rod, took me about 3 minutes to
unhook the fish.
Held it in my hand as i was bringing it back to the water, i could feel it's
heart pounding
and racing in my hand. Just as I was about to drop him in, his heart
stopped. I felt so so bad.
Tried to ressucitate the fish for 15 minutes to no avail. Someone explained
it later,
Seawater fish gills not very good, Sea water has ample oxygenation, hence
not very evolved
gills...

....Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Kodiak,

I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.

The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the
fish
was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken,
the
chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
the place.

HTH

Tom L.L.

Tom L.L.
=====================
"Kodiak" wrote in message
. ..
Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so
sad...
...
About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
wacking
a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
took 4 Grand slams to
put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
...Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Folks,

First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have
two
receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
totally.

A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish
in
a
towel and whacking it on a stone paver.

Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen,
get
out
the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head
with
a
large butcher knife.

Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
degree
water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.

So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way
is
really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
seeing
your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
and
will never do it again.

Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
it
and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just
make
sure
you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
your
freezer will freeze the water over night.

In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
person
to do this.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Donald Kerns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most
likely
isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
some
on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
sensitive.
one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid


OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I
will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one
gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college.
;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

That's apparently a bit of a myth about the chicken, too. When their heads
are cut off, they are still alive. They bleed to death. I saw a
documentary on TV where someone managed to somehow "fix" the artery (I
forget what was done to it), and they kept the headless chicken alive for a
long time (over a year, but I forget exactly) by feeding it through a tube.
I'm not sure why someone would want to do such a thing, but it did prove a
point - a headless chicken is not 'Dead" and acting on nerve impulses, as we
once thought. It's really not dead until it falls down.

It was a few years ago I saw this, and I was doing something else at the
time, and not paying 100% attention, but I got the message. Just thought
I'd share.

--
} Tammy {
Support the Canakin Project with me, by linking to your favorite store from
this address:
http://www.geocities.com/ontario_canakin All Proceeds will be used to
purchase equipment, fish, etc for the Canakin Project

Watkins Business Opportunity
www.tsginfo.com Enter code TD3796
Me and my fish Thank You!!
"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Kodiak,

I know what you mean. Having to put a living thing down is one of the
hardest things a person should ever have to do, or at least it should be,
which is why I am glad that I very seldom ever have to deal with it.

The incident that you experienced with the pike though is dealing with a
fish bigger than a Goldfish. You also have to consider that the fish
probably succumbed after the first blow and the result activity of the
fish
was probably just nerves. Kind of like cutting the head off a chicken,
the
chicken is really dead, but it's body just responding by jumping all over
the place.

HTH

Tom L.L.

Tom L.L.
=====================
"Kodiak" wrote in message
. ..
Damn does the fish really thrash around at 32deg, Oooohh that is so
sad...
...
About the towel and stone paver, i don't know, I once had the misery of
wacking
a pike on a paved driveway with a baseball bat to try and put it out. It
took 4 Grand slams to
put it out. I swear I will never be in such a predicament again.
...Kodiak


"Tom La Bron" wrote in message
...
Folks,

First, you are associating your pain with that of a fish. Fish have
two
receptors, humans/mammals have four. Different levels of sensation,
totally.

A British book that I have about Goldfish, suggests wrapping the fish
in
a
towel and whacking it on a stone paver.

Or you can put the fish in a tub of water, bring it to the kitchen,
get
out
the cutting board, place it quickly on the board and sever its head
with
a
large butcher knife.

Even in Freezing as the water starts in that transition period of 32
degree
water to 32 degree ice the fish trashes for bit. I have seen it.

So unless you has access to ms222 and can over dose your fish, no way
is
really easy. Clove oil can also be an agonizing experience for you
seeing
your fish, if it is not done right. I know people that have tried it
and
will never do it again.

Probably the best way is the freezer way because that way you just bag
it
and pop it in and close the door and don't have to watch it. Just
make
sure
you do it at bed time and don't take it out until morning. Hopefully,
your
freezer will freeze the water over night.

In any event, generally there is not real easy way for the hobbyist
person
to do this.

HTH

Tom L.L.
"Donald Kerns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

right.. for us cold water is painful whereas for fish it most
likely
isnt. I wont suggest you inhale the clove/alcohol combo, but rub
some
on your nasal
passages and see how gentle it really is. their gills are
sensitive.
one reason I
prefer cold water for numbing going into frozen. Ingrid


OK, I'm an "try the experiment" sorta guy.

Next time I face the unfortunate task of killing one of my fish I
will
perform the experiment. Alcohol/eugenol/water solution at the same
concentration as used on the fish.

Oye, try explaining THAT to LE

"Well officer, I had to put my fish down and... well I was wondering
how
it feels and well... That's how I got a snoot-full. HONEST!"

Seeing that clove oil is also sold as a topical anesthesia for
tooth-ache and temporary fillings, only the alcohol should cause a
problem.

Working the math for a first order estimate...

The recommended level is 2ml of clove oil 8ml of alcohol in one
gallon
of water (~3800ml). Assuming pure alcohol that would be... ah...0.4
proof plus a 0.05% solution of something that is supposed to be used
at
full strength on humans.

Yeah, I'll sign up for that. I did worse at parties in college.
;-)

-D
--
My mother peddles opium, my father's on the dole.
My sister used to walk the streets, but now she's on parole,
My brother runs a restaurant with bedrooms in the rear,
But they don't even speak to me, 'cause I'm an Engineer.

I believe that the head that was cut off was not the entire head. There
was just enough of the brain remaining for the chicken to survive.
There was one farmer who put this to extreme test, and killed a few
hundred in experiment. He did eventually get a chicken that survived
and was fed using a tube. It toured most of the united states until
someone neglected to keep an eye on it and it choked to death.

There has been several scientific studies into it, but to be honest, I
have no wish to look further. I can hardly see how cruel experiments
like that help to further humanity. It just seems something to revive
sideshows.

LoaderLady wrote:
That's apparently a bit of a myth about the chicken, too. When their heads
are cut off, they are still alive. They bleed to death. I saw a
documentary on TV where someone managed to somehow "fix" the artery (I
forget what was done to it), and they kept the headless chicken alive for a
long time (over a year, but I forget exactly) by feeding it through a tube.
I'm not sure why someone would want to do such a thing, but it did prove a
point - a headless chicken is not 'Dead" and acting on nerve impulses, as we
once thought. It's really not dead until it falls down.

It was a few years ago I saw this, and I was doing something else at the
time, and not paying 100% attention, but I got the message. Just thought
I'd share.