How long in the bag

PS: Fish is still having a hard time adjusting. Hasn't eaten in almost three
days now. Dorsal fin is not really clamped but not completely upright.
He seems to be in energy conservation mode. PH in the tank is 7.0, too
bad I didn't check PH in the bag.

...Kodiak

Poor little guy. Don't feel bad if you lose him-- he could be
suffering from any manner of parasite/bacteria. The main thing is
that you are trying to give him a good life.

Did you try Prazi-pro? Sometimes a bad case of flukes keeps them from
eating, and they sit still on the bottom a lot.
Prazi clears flukes quickly and with minimal stress to the fish and
filter.
www.goldfishconnection.com has it and is quick to ship. Or you might
be able to find it locally. You could also salt the water to .3% (one
tablespoon per gallon-- dissolve and add it gradually over 12 hours),
which will eliminate a lot of ciliated protozoan parasites, like ich.
Keep the temperature up (around 79-80F is good) while you're treating.
Try feeding him a small part of a squished pea. (That was all one of
my fish would eat when he had flukes-- he's fine now)

Good luck.

Well that explains everything. Thank you all for the wonderful
posts on this. Just when you think your getting a handle on the
situation, you realize your doing it all wrong. Day 4 now, the fish
seems to be doing better, but he still won't eat. Wondering if I should
move him to a quiet tank on his own.

Why don't the LFS's know about this? They should remove the print on the bag
that says mix
water a bit at a time. If my fish dies because of this I will be really
upset. To think you go through
all that trouble and follow detailed instructions, and that's what's killing
your fish! Phooey!...

....Kodiak


wrote in message
...
it depends.
how much water was in the bag
using "bag buddies": or any other kind of sedative is a no-no
did they put a drop of something in to bind up ammonia (a good thing)
did they flush the bag with pure oxygen or just tanked air?
all fish suffer some gill frying from transport, but opening the bag and
leaving them
in the bag water does the most damage.
Polyaqua is the brand name. used for soothing gills
shipping by UPS requires chilling the fish over several days and stop
feeding them
for 2 or 3 days before shipping, using ice packs to keep the water cold,
adding
something to bind ammonia, using hospital grade pure oxygen to flush the
water and
fill the bag. and using adequate sized bag and water for size of fish,
i.e.
unpacking. Jo Ann only used UPS and Delta Dash cause they would get the
fish there
in 12 hours or so altho she packed such that IF the fish were out 24 or
more hours
the fish still would do well. She always had good luck with fish arriving
in great
shape.... but ... she did have problems with UPS dropping the box of fish
causing
internal injuries. Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
You mentioned 1week to recover from fried gills, do you really think
i fried my poor fishies gills from only 5 hours of transport? How can
you safely ship any fish by UPS or FEDEX then? Must need a big huge
bag of water? What is polyaqua, can you recommend a brand?

...Kodiak


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

the fish may need to be force fed to get em eating again. often their sense of smell
seems to have been "burned". try a bit of chopped shrimp, or, daphnia something that
moves may stimulate them to eat. are you saying you put this fish in with
established fish? that you didnt quarantine this new fish?

yes, go back to the LFS with a printout from this group and explain how their old
fashioned mythology is actually causing people to kill fish. it is the only way they
will learn. lest you think it wont change anything.... you have no idea how the
Goldfish Guru (Jo Ann Burke) has changed the keeping of GF in the few years she has
been on the internet. Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
Well that explains everything. Thank you all for the wonderful
posts on this. Just when you think your getting a handle on the
situation, you realize your doing it all wrong. Day 4 now, the fish
seems to be doing better, but he still won't eat. Wondering if I should
move him to a quiet tank on his own.

Why don't the LFS's know about this? They should remove the print on the bag
that says mixwater a bit at a time. If my fish dies because of this I will be really
upset. To think you go throughall that trouble and follow detailed instructions, and that's what's killing
your fish! Phooey!...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I heartily recommend NOT using praziquantel with GF. It is NOT mild and can fry the
gills.
A quick 10 SECOND dip in 1 part (3%) hydrogen peroxide + 9 parts water effectively
kills all kinds of flukes. This can be repeated every 3 days if there are dacs
(hatching eggs). It is cheap, it works, and the contact with the gills is fleeting.
Ingrid


Did you try Prazi-pro? Sometimes a bad case of flukes keeps them from
eating, and they sit still on the bottom a lot.
Prazi clears flukes quickly and with minimal stress to the fish and
filter.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Day 4 now, the fish
seems to be doing better, but he still won't eat. Wondering if I should
move him to a quiet tank on his own.

If it won't eat there is probably something wrong with it. Next time see if the
fish eats in the store. I missed what type of fish it is but some fish don't
recognize different food if they have been raised on one diet.
When I invented the bucket to bucket method I used a green colored series of
buckets. The green color relaxed the fish to the point they were stationary and
breathing calmly. I do not know why, but when I moved them to a different color
they were not calm. In time, and when on the mend, they start to hunt and peck
like a normal fish.

Huh. I've had very good luck with Prazi.
The fish I've used it on in q-tine have turned out to be my
healthiest, liveliest ones.
It came highly recommended from sources I respect.
OH well.


wrote in message ...
I heartily recommend NOT using praziquantel with GF. It is NOT mild and can fry the
gills.
A quick 10 SECOND dip in 1 part (3%) hydrogen peroxide + 9 parts water effectively
kills all kinds of flukes. This can be repeated every 3 days if there are dacs
(hatching eggs). It is cheap, it works, and the contact with the gills is fleeting.
Ingrid


Did you try Prazi-pro? Sometimes a bad case of flukes keeps them from
eating, and they sit still on the bottom a lot.
Prazi clears flukes quickly and with minimal stress to the fish and
filter.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Huh. I've had very good luck with Prazi.
The fish I've used it on in q-tine have turned out to be my
healthiest, liveliest ones.
It came highly recommended from sources I respect.
OH well.


Peroxide came from a published story in 2001 and it referenced a 1997 work. The
article goes back to 1922 with credits and also cites dosages. They think no
one will check, that's how they operate.

Yes Ingrid, I know, shame on me. I put him in an established tank without
Qtine first.
The other fish in the tank were also recently purchased and not Qtine'd. I'm
just now
getting into all the intricacies of this hobby, so i proise I will never do
that again.

Day 5 now he's still not eating, should I take him out and do a bucket
brigade on him?
....Kodiak

wrote in message
...
the fish may need to be force fed to get em eating again. often their
sense of smell
seems to have been "burned". try a bit of chopped shrimp, or, daphnia
something that
moves may stimulate them to eat. are you saying you put this fish in with
established fish? that you didnt quarantine this new fish?

yes, go back to the LFS with a printout from this group and explain how
their old
fashioned mythology is actually causing people to kill fish. it is the
only way they
will learn. lest you think it wont change anything.... you have no idea
how the
Goldfish Guru (Jo Ann Burke) has changed the keeping of GF in the few
years she has
been on the internet. Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
Well that explains everything. Thank you all for the wonderful
posts on this. Just when you think your getting a handle on the
situation, you realize your doing it all wrong. Day 4 now, the fish
seems to be doing better, but he still won't eat. Wondering if I should
move him to a quiet tank on his own.

Why don't the LFS's know about this? They should remove the print on the
bag
that says mixwater a bit at a time. If my fish dies because of this I
will be really
upset. To think you go throughall that trouble and follow detailed
instructions, and that's what's killing
your fish! Phooey!...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

you need to tempt him with something stronger smelling and/or something that moves.
most of these fish were in ponds and fed live food. try a smidgen of live blood
worms. otherwise you are going to have to force feed em. a 1 cc TB syringe (without
the needle of course) and soak some food until it is much will go up into the syringe
and back out. get the syringe all the way back down into their throat where the
pharyngeal teeth are. as you bring the fish up to the surface they will open their
mouth. that is when you put the syringe in and feed em. Ingrid

"Kodiak" wrote:
Yes Ingrid, I know, shame on me. I put him in an established tank without
Qtine first.
The other fish in the tank were also recently purchased and not Qtine'd. I'm
just now
getting into all the intricacies of this hobby, so i proise I will never do
that again.
Day 5 now he's still not eating, should I take him out and do a bucket
brigade on him?
...Kodiak


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

potassium permanganate has always been used successfully for gyros in the past. PP
is also not very harsh, but it is used as a bath (which always has concerns). Dacs
have always been a problem and been resistant to almost all medications, including
praziquantel.
Jo Ann figured out what dose of peroxide works with flukes on GF just in the last
year or so, so I am not surprised that others are still recommending prazi.

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/dxendopar/d...aziquantel.htm
"Praziquantel
Chemical group: Acylated quinoline-pyrazine
Trade names: Droncit, Tape Worm Tabs, Drontal1, Drontal Plus2
Mode of action: Modulates cell membrane permeability (calcium dependent), leads to a
disintegration of the tapeworm’s tegument.

Now if this were pond fish and the pond was loaded with organics, prazi might be the
choice. Ingrid

(Vissy Dartae) wrote:
Huh. I've had very good luck with Prazi.
The fish I've used it on in q-tine have turned out to be my
healthiest, liveliest ones.
It came highly recommended from sources I respect.
OH well.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.