blue betta

Mr. Gardener wrote:
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:33:40 -0500, "Nikki"
wrote:


the heater was on the same temp for some time, always at 80-82, I came home
tonight and it was stuck on, needless to say I threw it away but the temp in
the tank was nearly 98 degree's, betta was quite mad and floating, I took
him out and put him in water that was 78 degree's and cooled the tank down,
changed the heater, I put him back in his tank, he don't look great but he
don't look dead no more either so who knows, I'm going to hope he makes it,
I feel real bad about it, the heater was a few years old so maybe it
broke...


Wow. I've never had a heater go on me, but I've read about it. Hope
your betta makes it. And it's fortunate that you had an extra heater
on hand.

-- Mister Gardener

I have...not nice if you don't catch it - we lost all the fish in a 15
gall after the heater failed :-( and lost a betta with a jammed heater...

Just as an aside - one thing to watch for with over heated water is
oxygen depletion...I use air pumps in my tanks in the summer if it gets
too warm...

Gill

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:12:50 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Just as an aside - one thing to watch for with over heated water is
oxygen depletion...I use air pumps in my tanks in the summer if it gets
too warm...

Gill

Good point. One of the people living in my house has a medical
condition that requires we keep the place air conditioned to around
72F, 22C, in the summer, which also benefits the fish. As far north as
we live, we still get some very warm temperatures during both summer
weeks.

-- Mister Gardener

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:36:13 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:


I rather think you are trying to flame me here...and I will not
rise...revolution - what revolution??? Us Brits have never done this
stuff - half arsed attempt at a civil war many centuries ago - chopped
off the head of the king...waited a while and then crowned his son. We
just let go of a troublesome colony...hey, Canada is still part of the
"Commonwealth" and we all get on fine...Nuff said (and I am tongue in
cheek so need not get patriotic responses)...

Yeah, right, everything is about the saved pound or dollar...but
sometimes things are more important...I want to buy relatively healthy
fish...doesn't always happen but the legislation in place here makes it
more likely than not - otherwise these places get reported and get shut
down....Don't knock it....it's what all you guys really want in your
country...

As for exploitation - where were your jeans or trainers manufactured????
- sorry, woops, no flame war or off-topic stuff here....forget I typed
this....

Gill
We're all part of this globalized consumerism, whether we want to be
or not. No flame intended, purely in jest. You did, however, give me
an idea for my next library visit, and that is to see what I can find
in the British history books about the amerikan revolution. Time to
take this topic off the fish board and get back to business.

I stopped in at Petco yesterday while I was in the city, bought a case
of cat food for a new feline in my home that refuses to eat the dry
food we serve our other cats. He'll learn by the time he finishes this
case. I wandered into the fish department, can never resist, and
browsed the tanks. They looked good, the fish looked really good. In
fact, I saw a tank of very nice looking angels . . . but as I looked
further, I noted that there were dozens of bags of fish hanging in the
tanks acclimating . . . delivery day . . . bad time to buy new fish.
Next time I go there, when the skinny teenager asks if he can help me,
maybe I'll strike up a conversation with him and see just what he
knows and how he cares for the fish. Instead of politely brushing him
off or intentionally asking him a difficult question that I know will
stymie him.

-- Mister Gardener

--off topic--- just for a sec
My mom has a Myers puma (spelling is wrong, but that's how its said) neat
cat
they are breed in Maryland, anyhow, she had that same problem, it would
starve before eating dry food, she mixed wet with dry for a few weeks and
weaned, finally it ate dry food.
---back on topic----
They have petco's every where I guess, huh, I got one here also, we always
have teens in ours walking around confused instead of working maybe its
their policy
Nikki

"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:12:50 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

Just as an aside - one thing to watch for with over heated water is
oxygen depletion...I use air pumps in my tanks in the summer if it gets
too warm...

Gill

I have heard you guys say that, after cooling the water a bit i did put an
extra air stone in there, he is still alive, which i feel so much better
about, but not really eating, and sitting still more then normal but if he
sees me coming he still comes over so i guess that is a good sign.



Good point. One of the people living in my house has a medical
condition that requires we keep the place air conditioned to around
72F, 22C, in the summer, which also benefits the fish. As far north as
we live, we still get some very warm temperatures during both summer
weeks.

-- Mister Gardener

I'm north also, up in PA, we can go in the 90's in sumer, and below zero in
the winter, not to often these days, uaualy 20's. We have a air conditioner
because of my son luke, he is six and has asthma pretty bad, he is on a
breathing machine four times a day during winter, not to bad in the sumer,
but the air helps.
Nik

Its a betta, tank is only between 3-4 gl, I am doing big water changes at
the moment because their tail/fin are in bad shape, i also had this problem
with two other betta's (ich) and problems with their tail/fin and by
changing water every day, they were back to being healthy in a couple weeks
and are now fine, they are not in perminit tanks at this time, its much
eaiser to treat in the tanks they are in now.
Nikki


"LaieTechie" wrote in message
newsan.2006.03.18.08.04.35.422010@win_remove_get _nospam_solutions.com...
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:56:42 -0500, Nikki wrote:

When I change their water daily I either change 100% or 50% depending,

You should only rarely do 100% water changes. By replacing all the water,
you will cause new tank syndrome. Of course, the medications you're
adding might already be killing the good microbes along with the bad.

You may want to add aquarium or sea salt to your tank unless it's planted.
The added salinity will definitely help against ich.

hth,
Laie Techie

Nikki wrote:
wow, were did this post go
all I know is I did not buy, treat, post, nor was I patriotic, at least not
today..
hope you all have a good night....I have had a bad one, I almost fried one
of my betta's

changed the heater, I put him back in his tank, he don't look great but he
don't look dead no more either so who knows, I'm going to hope he makes it,
I feel real bad about it, the heater was a few years old so maybe it
broke....
o-well I'm going to go lay down, my baby has a high fever *this weather in
pgh pa is horrible, 60 degrees one day and 20 degrees the next*
Nikki


"Mr. Gardener" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:46:22 -0600, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

Moments before spontaneously combusting Nikki at
was heard opining:

I also called petsmart and your right they said they don't get them in
*most* of the time.
I do have a Wal-Mart not to far, I have never considered getting fish
there but maybe ill try.
thanks Nikki
=======================
Make sure you treat all WM fish for ICK. I just bought the first fish in
years at WM today. See my post above regarding calico Lionheads. They'll
be treated for ICK, then flukes. They'll be in quarantine for at least 14
to 21 days.

Now there you go again, spontaneously combusting Nikki. At this rate
you're going to everyone blown up and no one to talk to.

Why are you treating your new fish for diseases that you haven't
identified?

-- Mister Gardener
Hi Nikki

the heater was on the same temp for some time, always at 80-82, I came home
tonight and it was stuck on, needless to say I threw it away but the temp in
the tank was nearly 98 degree's, betta was quite mad and floating, I took
him out and put him in water that was 78 degree's and cooled the tank down,

Um, I sure hope you didn't just add him right away to that 78*f water
after being in 98* water.

LaieTechie wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:56:42 -0500, Nikki wrote:

When I change their water daily I either change 100% or 50% depending,

You should only rarely do 100% water changes. By replacing all the water,
you will cause new tank syndrome. Of course, the medications you're
adding might already be killing the good microbes along with the bad.

You may want to add aquarium or sea salt to your tank unless it's planted.
The added salinity will definitely help against ich.

hth,
Laie Techie

I disagree. Nitrifying bacteria mostly adhere to solid surfaces like
plants glass, and gravel. You're not going to trigger a cycle by
leaving the filter, gravel, and decorations alone and changing all the
water. Have you ever actually changed 100% of the water without
touching anything and tested for ammonia? I have and found none.

There might be a bit of clouding, but that's not "new tank syndrome."
Perhaps that's what confused you. 100% water changes are good for sick
fish as long as water parameters are reasonably close.

Bettas don't particularly like salt either. Nikki and I have posted
quite a bit about this. Have a look at Nikki's earlier threads.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Nikki wrote:
"IDzine01" wrote in message
oups.com...
There is a difference between fin loss and fin rot but it isn't always
very obvious how to tell them apart. Fin rot is a bacterial infection
and often occurs due to poor water conditions. Bettas are extremely
susceptible to it and it's not uncommon for even seasoned veterans to
have to deal with it from time to time. General fin loss or tearing
(pin holes too) may occur if your betta snags his fins on something or
from flaring. Fin rot can often be identified by black or bloodied fin
tips. Often chunks of fins will just slough off. They are often
characteristically tattered at the ends as well. The signs of fin rot
may be less obvious with darker colored or red bettas.

http://www.nippyfish.net/finlossfinrot.html

Ok, let me give you a quick update, he (Mr. blue betta) is swimming a bit
today, I was surprised after yesterday, it has also made it a little easier
to see all the fins, it was hard when he was sitting at the bottom of the
tank. I think they are just pinholes, if you took the pinholes away his
tail/fin would look completely normal, no snags, rips, or anything along
those lines, just pinholes. I see what you are saying now (the difference
between rot/pinholes). Another good thing is this morning he took a few
pieces of food, I have had him for a week, and he was in a cup at the store,
so I don't know that he could of got snagged on anything, but the water in
the cup had a film on top, not sure from what, maybe that has something to
do with it.
He is not as active as the others, however he does not look like he might
die at any moment as he did yesterday.
We had been talking about ich, I have a question, I know you can not kill it
when its on the fish, the meds kill it when it falls off the fish and is in
the rocks, if I understand right you can kill ich with high temps, so when
it falls off the betta, and is in the rocks, could you not empty out the
tank and boil the rocks, which would kill it or at least lessen the time you
need to use the medication, is that right or not, I see where it would not
be reasonable to do this in a big tank with a lot of stuff in it, but in a
QT ???
Let me know if you have a minute
Thanks for the help Nikki

At 82F, a display tank with no fish is ich-free after about four days -
seven at the outside. The swimming parasites (tomites) die in a couple
of days without a fish host. You kill ich in a Q-tank by letting it dry
completely. I don't know about boiling - I've never read anything one
way or the other. I'd be more inclined to use 5% bleach, dechlorinate,
and dry everything.

Supposedly, one of the ways of treating ich without medicine is to
transfer the fish from tank to tank, moving them daily. As they are
shed the cysts are left behind, at the bottom of the tank. The
procedure is to remove all the fish to the first QT tank at 80F. After
a day, you move them to a second warmed QT and sterilize the first. The
next day, you move the fish to the clean tank and disinfect the other.
You're supposed to move the fish back and forth for seven days and then
they can go home.

I've never tried it because my QT tank is usually not big enough for all
the fish in my display tank. It also sounds stressful for both me and
the fish. And somehow you'd have to try to keep the main tank filter
alive with ammonia.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Richard Sexton wrote:
Whether or not you finish the treatment of antibiotics is sort of up to
you. Antibiotics should be followed through because under-medicating or
shortening the course may lead to antibiotic-resistant bacteria. On the
other hand, unnecessary treatment may be harmful to your betta.
I completely agree with you about antibiotics. With only one dose, I'd
discontinue treatment. The worst thing for resistance seems to be
stopping after three or four days instead of going for a full course of
seven to ten days. Even a full course of antibiotics can leave some
resistant bacteria, which is why they should be a last resort if you
choose to use them at all.

No. Untergasser says antibiotics should only be used as a last
resort with an irreplacable fish (think $25K koi) in a glass
only tank. You absolutley must finish the course of treatment
if started. These days it's very strongly recommended a test
be done on the cultured big to see if the antibiotic has
resistance to the bug. If it does not they WILL be dead at
the end of the treatment.

Non antibiotic bacteriocides can be fond at:

http://aquaria.net/articles/meds/ant.../alternatives/

Not quite. Even if a test is done on cultured bacteria and a good
antibiotic identified, there is no guarantee of 100% death. In fact,
it's wildly improbable. That's the whole underlying problem with
antibiotics. A culture is only a statistical sample. The hope is that
the host immune system will kill the few resistant bacteria that remain
after the drug kills 99.999% (or whatever proportion) of the bacteria.
Fortunately, it usually works.

One dose of antibiotics almost never causes resistance, which is why I
told Nikki to stop using the meds. Resistant bacteria tend to grow more
slowly than normal ones. They have extra DNA to replicate and more
proteins to manufacture as they grow. When many non-resistant bacteria
are left after a single dose of antibiotic, they rapidly outgrow the
resistant ones and the population stays non-resistant. This has been
well-documented in the bacteriological and cell biology literature.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:54:38 GMT, Altum
wrote:


Supposedly, one of the ways of treating ich without medicine is to
transfer the fish from tank to tank, moving them daily. As they are
shed the cysts are left behind, at the bottom of the tank. The
procedure is to remove all the fish to the first QT tank at 80F. After
a day, you move them to a second warmed QT and sterilize the first. The
next day, you move the fish to the clean tank and disinfect the other.
You're supposed to move the fish back and forth for seven days and then
they can go home.

I've never tried it because my QT tank is usually not big enough for all
the fish in my display tank. It also sounds stressful for both me and
the fish. And somehow you'd have to try to keep the main tank filter
alive with ammonia.

I've never tried it either, because I never heard of it until a couple
of weeks ago right here, where it took about a dozen patient writers
to explain it to me. The multiple bucket method. I envision doing it
with multiple 5 gallon white buckets with the Tru Value Hardware logo
on the sides, of which I seem to have an endless supply. It looks like
work for me, stress for the fish, drinking stations for the dogs and
entertainment for the cats. This is one of those aquarium treatments
where I am perfectly happy with the chemical approach, to heck with
the all natural solution.


-- Mister Gardener