Few odd Questions Any help appreciated (pond/water couorse building/sturgeon) (UK)

Hi all..

Newbie posting here for first time (please be gentle)

First off, I've just built a 1000 Gallon pond (not bad considering my garden
is so small) but I want to have a water feature flowing into it. However
all the ready made Water courses are wrong shape/too big/small, so I got to
thinking about expanding foam and liner, making my own... Has anyone done
this before?? Will it be better to paint the expanding foam with a rubber
compound pond sealant paint? Or cover with a liner? Its not gonna be too
huge and will be well supported.. But the fence behind the pond is VERY
boring to look at.

This pond WILL be populated with fish (koi, Shibunkins (sp) and Sturgeon
amongst possible other additions.. (blue orfe seem to be a very likely
addition).

Now to another Question.. I have some sturgeon (3 off) and the other
evening I went out to the garden about 11 pm (pitch dark) and the sturgeon
were sticking there whole heads out of the water and making a grunting
sound?? This has me worried (they are 2' long each) and are at present in
an holding tank (old bath tub) while the pond is sorted. (bath tub having a
3000 gallon filtration system running in it to make sure water stays clean
and clear.(including a 15 watt UV clarifier))

pond will be ready for population (excluding the "feature") in a week but
the feature will be a removable item so can be made separately from the
pond!

sorry for the long post, but thought the details MAY be relevant

Any help and advice offered will be most helpful..

Lost

All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
"Lostin1999" wrote in message
...
Hi all..

Newbie posting here for first time (please be gentle)

First off, I've just built a 1000 Gallon pond (not bad considering my
garden
is so small) but I want to have a water feature flowing into it. However
all the ready made Water courses are wrong shape/too big/small, so I got
to
thinking about expanding foam and liner, making my own... Has anyone done
this before?? Will it be better to paint the expanding foam with a rubber
compound pond sealant paint? Or cover with a liner? Its not gonna be too
huge and will be well supported.. But the fence behind the pond is VERY
boring to look at.

This pond WILL be populated with fish (koi, Shibunkins (sp) and Sturgeon
amongst possible other additions.. (blue orfe seem to be a very likely
addition).

Now to another Question.. I have some sturgeon (3 off) and the other
evening I went out to the garden about 11 pm (pitch dark) and the sturgeon
were sticking there whole heads out of the water and making a grunting
sound?? This has me worried (they are 2' long each) and are at present
in
an holding tank (old bath tub) while the pond is sorted. (bath tub having
a
3000 gallon filtration system running in it to make sure water stays clean
and clear.(including a 15 watt UV clarifier))

pond will be ready for population (excluding the "feature") in a week but
the feature will be a removable item so can be made separately from the
pond!

sorry for the long post, but thought the details MAY be relevant

Any help and advice offered will be most helpful..

Lost

"k conover" wrote in message
...
All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
snip

A generally excepted ratio of Koi to Water is 1,000 gallons for the first
Koi and 100 gallons for each additional Koi. So 4 Koi, for example, should
be in 1300 gallons of water. The key thing to remember here, is that this is
a rule thumb, and nothing more.

BV.

I know not everyone follows this rule; I've just been told by the owner of a
major water garden designer store/installer that in order for them to thrive
(live their full life span, have less disease problems, etc) koi should be
in a larger pond.
Kirsten
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"k conover" wrote in message
...
All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
snip

A generally excepted ratio of Koi to Water is 1,000 gallons for the first
Koi and 100 gallons for each additional Koi. So 4 Koi, for example, should
be in 1300 gallons of water. The key thing to remember here, is that this
is
a rule thumb, and nothing more.

BV.

"k conover" wrote in message
...
I know not everyone follows this rule; I've just been told by the owner of
a
major water garden designer store/installer that in order for them to
thrive
(live their full life span, have less disease problems, etc) koi should be
in a larger pond.

snip

Realistically, you could raise Koi in your kitchen sink, if you kept the
water clean and free of toxins. The larger bodies of water that we discuss
for Koi, a la the 1000+100 gallon rule, is to allow for buffering and
chemistry swings. A spawning's worth of Ammonia is much more toxic to a fish
500 gallons then to a fish in 1000 gallons.

The 1000+100 gallon rule provides a rule of thumb that assumes you do not
have perfect conditions, perfect filtration, etc.

BV.

Having read many of your posts, I know that you're a pond expert, and I
don't want to start a flame war, but you could raise a child in a closet if
you wanted as well, but if you care about the Koi as a living being and not
just a water ornament, you would want it to be happy and give it plenty of
space in which to swim.
Kirsten
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"k conover" wrote in message
...
I know not everyone follows this rule; I've just been told by the owner
of
a
major water garden designer store/installer that in order for them to
thrive
(live their full life span, have less disease problems, etc) koi should
be
in a larger pond.

snip

Realistically, you could raise Koi in your kitchen sink, if you kept the
water clean and free of toxins. The larger bodies of water that we discuss
for Koi, a la the 1000+100 gallon rule, is to allow for buffering and
chemistry swings. A spawning's worth of Ammonia is much more toxic to a
fish
500 gallons then to a fish in 1000 gallons.

The 1000+100 gallon rule provides a rule of thumb that assumes you do not
have perfect conditions, perfect filtration, etc.

BV.

On 6/14/04 10:37 AM, "Benign Vanilla" wrote:

Realistically, you could raise Koi in your kitchen sink, if you kept the
water clean and free of toxins. The larger bodies of water that we discuss
for Koi, a la the 1000+100 gallon rule, is to allow for buffering and
chemistry swings. A spawning's worth of Ammonia is much more toxic to a fish
500 gallons then to a fish in 1000 gallons.

The 1000+100 gallon rule provides a rule of thumb that assumes you do not
have perfect conditions, perfect filtration, etc.

And if I may humbly add, anything over 1,000 gallons is also more likely to
provide an adequate swimming depth for Koi, which to my mind would have to
be a minimum of three feet.

Joe,
(who only has gold fish, one Oscar and a turtle.)



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I have Koi..never have followed that rule... BUT Useing the rule
described below you are saying that you need 1000 gallons of water to
succesfully keep one KOI Healthy??? I disagree.... MIKE
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"k conover" wrote in message
...
All I know is, 1,000 gallons is too small for Koi...
Kirsten
snip

A generally excepted ratio of Koi to Water is 1,000 gallons for the first
Koi and 100 gallons for each additional Koi. So 4 Koi, for example, should
be in 1300 gallons of water. The key thing to remember here, is that this
is
a rule thumb, and nothing more.

BV.

I too am very new to all of this. I read a very interesting newbie article
once which said "Figure out how many fish your pond can support - then start
with 1/10th that." Also read "Pond keeping is not a science it is an art".
Ponding is not a formula. There are just too many variables which can
frequently change making each pond it's own little learning experience. You
will make mistakes - that's a given. Start slowly and your mistakes wont
cost you nearly as much in time, money and satisfaction. The bigger the
cushion to start the less the bruise in learning. Get to know your pond,
your filter, your fish, your unthought of problems. Quarantine all new fish
and plants before adding new problems to your pond. Don't start with
feeders. These things and more will help to keep new problems from becoming
a string of disasters. I say this having not done most of these things, but
I sure would do it differently if I had a second chance. Things will be
just so much more controlled and happy for everybody and everything. I
suspect there are some 'fast track' people who could also add their
disasters - but they're no longer ponders. Yes I think the 1000+ rule is
probably overstated.
I have already seen several EXPERIENCED ponders who have broken it. But if
you are soliciting advice and INEXPERIENCED this is probably a very good
rule. Start slowly and someday you will probably figure out how to 'break
the rules' safely in your own pond with your specific variables, or figured
out why you shouldnt. Or if you're like many in this group you'll have a
bigger pond and altogether different issues.

BTW - I dont know a thing about sturgeon. But my guess is, if they are
anything like comets you are on the way to your first three mistakes.
Filter not cylced, they got bugs, etc.

Bill Brister
Austin, Texas

I would say that ponding is mostly science. as in we know what will kill koi and try
to avoid that. science tells us how to be very conservative when starting out.
what water parameters are needed for healthy fish.
how much water, depth etc. is needed for stable pond temperature and "buffer" for
when/if things go wrong. in the south the problem is heat, in the north it is ice.
aeration, filtration.. why it is needed, what it does.
quarantine and why that is important.
water and lots of it is the very most important component of keeping fish. if the
water can be kept pristine keeping fish is a snap (well unless there is a predator or
somebody dumps poison in or around the pond).
art is when people knowingly bend or break the rules and get away with it.
Ingrid


"Newbie Bill" wrote:
Also read "Pond keeping is not a science it is an art".
Ponding is not a formula. There are just too many variables which can
frequently change making each pond it's own little learning experience. You
will make mistakes - that's a given. Start slowly and your mistakes wont
cost you nearly as much in time, money and satisfaction. The bigger the
cushion to start the less the bruise in learning. Get to know your pond,
your filter, your fish, your unthought of problems. Quarantine all new fish
and plants before adding new problems to your pond. Don't start with
feeders. These things and more will help to keep new problems from becoming
a string of disasters. I say this having not done most of these things, but
I sure would do it differently if I had a second chance. Things will be
just so much more controlled and happy for everybody and everything. I
suspect there are some 'fast track' people who could also add their
disasters - but they're no longer ponders. Yes I think the 1000+ rule is
probably overstated.
I have already seen several EXPERIENCED ponders who have broken it. But if
you are soliciting advice and INEXPERIENCED this is probably a very good
rule. Start slowly and someday you will probably figure out how to 'break
the rules' safely in your own pond with your specific variables, or figured
out why you shouldnt. Or if you're like many in this group you'll have a
bigger pond and altogether different issues.

BTW - I dont know a thing about sturgeon. But my guess is, if they are
anything like comets you are on the way to your first three mistakes.
Filter not cylced, they got bugs, etc.

Bill Brister
Austin, Texas




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