Pimafix/Melafix - more anecdotal stuff

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:34:09 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
. ..

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo"

It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.

Maybe I've been hearing too much Tom Cruise in the news, but what if
we someday find out that we, planet earthlings, are actually just
somebody's biodome aquarium. Our keepers would be sending to each
other on space net messages just like the above.

-- Mister Gardener

=====================
Who knows? We may be someone's experiment. Maybe that's what those UFO
sightings are all about.


And maybe we are someone else's UFO.

-- Mister Gardener

Or maybe as Larry uses in his signature "It's turtles all the way down" :-)

Or maybe we really are an experiment set up by the white mice.....

Koi-Lo wrote:

"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:39:57 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

It's almost as if they had a heart-attack.
========

No joking, I am amazed at the amount of problems people are having
with fish these days. I just don't remember this kind of trouble 20 or
30 or 40 years ago, and our equipment and water treatments were so not
advanced back then. Fish dying soon or even a little later after
bringing them home from the store was a big deal back then, today it's
expected to lose a few here and there.

-- Mister Gardener

============
As am I. What you say is true. What could the differences be? I think
it's more than likely a combination of inbreeding, rough handling
including too many fish per shipping bag to save shipping costs,
buildups of disease (all types) in some of the dealer's and wholesaler's
tanks, bacterial immunity to antibiotics, ...perhaps even more toxins in
our tap water. It was rare to lose a new GF even 15 years ago.

Lets take those WW calico lionheads I returned with contagious ulcers
for example. You know some wholesaler (plus WW) has that bacteria in
their systems now. How many thousands of fish were exposed and are
still being exposed? How many other stores besides WW were infected
with this bacteria as the wholesaler shipped fish here and there? What
about the breeders? I remember the AK breeder with the deadly gillfluke
outbreak. His GF were shipped all over the place.

Now,.... how many of us bought fish that *looked* perfectly healthy but
were already infested and that infection (or parasite) were silently
doing their thing on these fish? How can we know what they were exposed
to? We can't.

Just think of someone who bought one of those lionheads, or other fish
from that same tank (or tank in another store who bought from the same
wholesaler) and added it to their loved collection of GF or koi at
home? In a few weeks to a few months they will find themselves
fishless. I believe there needs to be some law regulating places that
breed and/or sell fish to the public. It's like everyone is out for
themselves, and I know this doesn't apply to everyone, ...it's like
nothing but the bottom line counts in the long run.

I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.

He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
betta food (tetra I think).

Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
get any in for at least 2 weeks....

Gill

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:47:11 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:


I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.

He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
betta food (tetra I think).

Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
get any in for at least 2 weeks....

Gill

Isn't it a good feeling to be able to have an honest chat with an
honest fish dealer? I had a similar experience this morning that I
shall describe in another message.

-- Mister Gardener

Mister Gardener wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:47:11 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:


I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.

He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
betta food (tetra I think).

Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
get any in for at least 2 weeks....

Gill


Isn't it a good feeling to be able to have an honest chat with an
honest fish dealer? I had a similar experience this morning that I
shall describe in another message.

-- Mister Gardener

It is...they are usually quite good at that place - which isn't where I
bought either Bob or Boris - I think Mr Bluey may have come from there
but that was over a year ago...

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
You're right....I remember as a kid even the goldfish I used to win at
fairs were far more resilient....inbreeding, overuse of medication,
resistant to diseases, weak stock, bad handling by shippers, stores and
new owners. Who knows? ....but I don't think it is acceptable....

It's a shame as these problems are going to turn a lot of newbies in the
hobby off. I know I've beat this drum before but there should be laws that
all employees selling live animals of any kind (including fish and birds)
have some kind of basic training. My grandson was very disappointed and sad
when his bettas fought and died. Why on earth would someone sell a child a
pair of bettas and one bowl? It was either ignorance or they wanted to roll
some female bettas.

With Boris I had had him since last September (and the others have lived
around 6 months) which makes me think it is either the age when purchased
or an inherent weakness in the stock.

I have had really good luck with bettas. I seldom lose one before 4 years
of age. The PetsMart here gets in excellent bettas. I've been buying mine
there for years now. They're young and healthy and the employees take care
of them very well. All the boys have been moved into 1g tanks and jars now
so may live a bit longer, I hope. It's also warmer on the bar-room-divider
than the windowsill but now they have no view. The next time I clean their
tanks I'll put them back on the sill so they can see outside.

I've also considered bad
husbandry on my part but if so, why is it just the bettas and the rams
that rarely survive past 6 months and all the other fish do just fine?

I gave up on Rams. I never could get them to live more than a few months
either. All they would eat was some live food which is either unavailable
in the stores these days or you have to raise your own. And they're bottom
feeders so the other fish would beat them to most of the food. No more Rams
for me. After so many years of fishkeeping I now want the easy to care for,
easy going, long lived fish in my indoor tanks. BTW,... this is the longest
otos ever lived for me. All are still alive and doing well in the GF and
platy tanks. I was hoping they'd at least survive long enough to clean up
the algae attack but it looks like they've made themselves at home. :-)

(I'm not counting any fish I lose within days/weeks of purchase in this).
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...

I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.

He should be able to tell by looking if a fish is "old" as with many of them
there are giveaways. Before you buy your next betta ask him his opinion on
it's age. I've personally seen very few OLD bettas for sale in the chains.
You said the smaller ones looked a bit puny - then do not buy them there!!!!
Young bettas should have a nice "finish" and not look weak or half starved.
Looking down on them they shouldn't look "big headed." I think you need to
look for bettas elsewhere. Sometimes the best private M&P shop isn't the
best place for certain fish.

He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
betta food (tetra I think).

I don't use any salt but do feed them a variety of betta foods. They will
eat flakes but don't care much for them. They also love thawed blood worms.

Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to get
any in for at least 2 weeks....

If all they're living for is 6 months I think you need to buy them somewhere
else.......


Gill
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-Lo wrote:

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...


I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.


He should be able to tell by looking if a fish is "old" as with many of
them there are giveaways. Before you buy your next betta ask him his
opinion on it's age. I've personally seen very few OLD bettas for sale
in the chains. You said the smaller ones looked a bit puny - then do not
buy them there!!!! Young bettas should have a nice "finish" and not look
weak or half starved. Looking down on them they shouldn't look "big
headed." I think you need to look for bettas elsewhere. Sometimes the
best private M&P shop isn't the best place for certain fish.

He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a
specific betta food (tetra I think).


I don't use any salt but do feed them a variety of betta foods. They
will eat flakes but don't care much for them. They also love thawed
blood worms.

Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
get any in for at least 2 weeks....


If all they're living for is 6 months I think you need to buy them
somewhere else.......


Gill

I bought the last two somewhere else....I'm not even sure if I ever
bought a betta from the place I was at today - plenty other fish
though...They are pretty good on advice and the fish are generally
healthy - and you don't have to fight them for a credit note.

I'll wait and see what they get in a couple of weeks time betta-wise....

Gill

The problem with a lot of stores, well they don't find it to be a problem
but the rate they are able to turn over betta's in most places is pretty
quick, they sell the betta and little betta bowl and food for it, to make a
profit, unlike other fish were people plan to get them and setup a tank and
what not, with bettas people don't always plan to get them, but they see
them near the check out and just grab them with all the stuff to go along
with them, because they are pretty.or because its easy (they think)...but
for them to be pretty and have long flowing tails/fin they have to be a
little older. most betta's in chain stores are between 6-8 months. I always
look at the betta's at petco or petsmart and notice the small ones who are
younger are always there longer, because people think they are not as pretty
as some of the big ones, but if they would get them young they could see
them grow into that pretty fish. most of the time if you talk to someone who
got their betta at a chain store they will tell you most of the time they
live 2 years, if you talk to breeders who have them since babies they say
3-4 years.
Nik



"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
Koi-Lo wrote:

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...


I had a chat with one of the guys in the LFS and he was pretty much as
stumped as I am. The only possible thing we can come up with is that
because I am buying the larger fish I might keep ending up with old
breeding stock - so they are just dying of old age.


He should be able to tell by looking if a fish is "old" as with many of
them there are giveaways. Before you buy your next betta ask him his
opinion on it's age. I've personally seen very few OLD bettas for sale
in the chains. You said the smaller ones looked a bit puny - then do not
buy them there!!!! Young bettas should have a nice "finish" and not look
weak or half starved. Looking down on them they shouldn't look "big
headed." I think you need to look for bettas elsewhere. Sometimes the
best private M&P shop isn't the best place for certain fish.

He suggested keeping them in a 0.1% salt solution and feeding a specific
betta food (tetra I think).


I don't use any salt but do feed them a variety of betta foods. They
will eat flakes but don't care much for them. They also love thawed
blood worms.

Anyway didn't buy one as they didn't have any...nor do they expect to
get any in for at least 2 weeks....


If all they're living for is 6 months I think you need to buy them
somewhere else.......


Gill

I bought the last two somewhere else....I'm not even sure if I ever bought
a betta from the place I was at today - plenty other fish though...They
are pretty good on advice and the fish are generally healthy - and you
don't have to fight them for a credit note.

I'll wait and see what they get in a couple of weeks time betta-wise....

Gill

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:32:55 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:


"Gill Passman" wrote in message
. ..
You're right....I remember as a kid even the goldfish I used to win at
fairs were far more resilient....inbreeding, overuse of medication,
resistant to diseases, weak stock, bad handling by shippers, stores and
new owners. Who knows? ....but I don't think it is acceptable....

It's a shame as these problems are going to turn a lot of newbies in the
hobby off. I know I've beat this drum before but there should be laws that
all employees selling live animals of any kind (including fish and birds)
have some kind of basic training. My grandson was very disappointed and sad
when his bettas fought and died. Why on earth would someone sell a child a
pair of bettas and one bowl? It was either ignorance or they wanted to roll
some female bettas.

I agree with that. Something on the level of Vet Tech, training and
licensure that we have here in the U.S. I have a lot of admiration for
vet techs, they are a devoted lot. It would be a huge positive step if
we could at least get a requirement that fish sellers must have a vet
tech on staff, full time. I was impressed to read an article recently
about Veterinary Nurses in Great Britain. An extensive education and
internship program fully equivalent to Bachelor's and Masters level of
human nursing here in the U.S.

Which reminds me. One of my cats, a big black fellow named Popeye, has
extra toes on all feet, and he grows an extra toenail between his
thumbs and forefingers and these nails curl under and imbed if we
don't trim them a couple of times a year. And every time I try, I draw
blood. Mine. I need to make an appointment with the vet tech to do his
nails for me pretty soon.

Another important role of the vet tech is community education. Enough
said.

-- Mister Gardener

"Mister Gardener" wrote in message
...

I agree with that. Something on the level of Vet Tech, training and
licensure that we have here in the U.S. I have a lot of admiration for
vet techs, they are a devoted lot. It would be a huge positive step if
we could at least get a requirement that fish sellers must have a vet
tech on staff, full time. I was impressed to read an article recently
about Veterinary Nurses in Great Britain. An extensive education and
internship program fully equivalent to Bachelor's and Masters level of
human nursing here in the U.S.

They probably couldn't afford someone with that much training but someone
with SOME training and knowledge who must pass some kind of test to work
with living things is in order.

Which reminds me. One of my cats, a big black fellow named Popeye, has
extra toes on all feet, and he grows an extra toenail between his
thumbs and forefingers and these nails curl under and imbed if we
don't trim them a couple of times a year. And every time I try, I draw
blood. Mine. I need to make an appointment with the vet tech to do his
nails for me pretty soon.

Why don't you just have your vet remove these nails so they can't grow back?

--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o