Aquarists vs Marine Biologists

I'm a pack rat. I dont' like to through stuff away. I have
all my e-mail going back over 10 years.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



Cindy wrote on 3/24/2006 4:51 PM:
Wayne Sallee typed:
I've got mine farther back than that, But most people
don't, so google is good for point out threads to people.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/22/2006 6:58 PM:
None of us are perfect. One of lifes hardest lessons is humilty.
Some of us obviously never learned it while others have had a
healthy dose.
And BTW I could careless about your google link. Some of us have
this group archived for about 6 months back headers and everything
so please stop reminding me of your efficient use of google.

Eh, I get rid of mine after 3 days. I can always find what I want again.

Well son, I am not giving my identity away. Who is we? just block me and
that is it kid!

jrs
"TheRock" wrote in message
news:b5IUf.7265$092.6547@trndny04...
HOLY FREAKING THREADS !
THE LAST ONE THAT WAS THIS LONG WAS "WHAT'S THE BEST SALT "
AND GUESS WHO SPARKED THAT LONG DEBATE UP ?!?!
I'M STARTING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE.
IT SEEMS THAT JR-S IS STARVED FOR ATTENTION.

HE POSTS, HE TICKS EVERYONE OFF. FALLS BACK ON I'M A BIO GUY AND THEN
NEVER BACKS UP ANY OF HIS CLAIMS.

WHY DOESN'T HE POST ANY OF HIS JOURNALS WHEN HE ALWAYS FALLS BACK TO
WELL I'M A MARINE BIO GUY AND I WROTE JOURNALS FOR MIAMI U

JR-S SHOW US YOUR WORK OR FADE TO BLACK.
WE ARE GROWING TIERED OF YOUR CORN HOLE.


"AverageSchmuck" wrote in message
...
yeah I know but even though different approach a still bit of tact and
finesse still prevails in end with a constructive and positive result
versus the slam bash he said she said point finger festival that is
happening now. I know it takes two to tango and noone is innocent in
the mudslinging just somewhere it has to stop cause it will never stop
being negative without some sort of agreement. To be honest what I see
is a claim that has absolutely no credibility until data has been
offered to support it which none as of this post that I am aware of so
just seems to me a worthless debate until and big if it is supplied.

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:45:55 GMT, Wayne Sallee
wrote:

Depends on how you pick him up :-)

I've caught lion fish with my hands.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/23/2006 12:28 PM:
Well example .. recently I think my lionfish I beleive dislocated his
jaw .. He went over a week without eating . I simply added nutrients
to water and patiently waited for him to be able to open his mouth
wide enough to eat some scallops and shrimp parts from my acrlic stick
... Today finally he ate a shrimp .. Now if I attacked him do you think
I would have gotten that result? I probably would have ended up with a
very swollen painful hand


On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:22:44 GMT, Wayne Sallee
wrote:

Maybe we have a slight glimmer of hope that he might be
able so offer some value to the newsgroup if he can
straiten his attitude out. He doesn't have a reef tank, so
that limits his knowledge, but maybe he will decide to
spend a little money, so that he can learn what it's
really like to keep a reef aquarium.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/23/2006 12:12 PM:
Well yeah that part I understand and that was done however why does
it
continue?


On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:10:07 GMT, Wayne Sallee

wrote:

Umm no you don't have it now. It's all about his claim to
be better, when he is not. If we had not disputed his
false claims, people could think that because he claimed
to be a biologist, that the way he said to set up a reef
tank would work, and they would then be sorely
disappointed when their corals started dying, because they
took advice from someone that claimed to be a biologist,
and they trusted his advice blindly.

That's the great thing about this newsgroup, is that a
person can post a wrong answer, but there are lots of
other people that can come back and correct the answer.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



AverageSchmuck wrote on 3/22/2006 12:09 PM:
I think I get get it now ..
1. person made claims that go against what I have learned and
understood and everyone else. Does this make them wrong. Maybe
maybe
not
2. Everyone asks for research data anything to back these claims.
3. none provided perosn says they plan on turning future profit
4. still none provided ... people start takeing cheap shots at each
other
5. cheap shots are getting more brutal Both sides here are guilty
6. alleged person is now trying to slow it up a bit but is still
not
providing information
7. people still thowing stones at each other

AverageSchmuck wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2006:
Seriously why should it bother you that someone out their feels your
wasting your money.. Do you feel like your wasting your money?

His opinion of whether I'm wasting my money doesn't bother me at all.

The replies were all in service of innocent new reefkeepers. Novices would
pose a typical question, and Jaime would laugh at them and tell them they're
wasting their money. The more experienced reefkeepers on this group wanted
to set the record straight for the benefit of the lurkers, who might otherwise
believe that Jaime's claims were the collected wisdom of reef aquarists.

Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.

You missed the sarcasm of my post. When a guy tells you over and over again
"you're all ignorant -- believe me because I'm a Marine Biologist!", then it's
kind of funny if he turns out to have far fewer qualifications than many of
the other posters here (who, in turn, don't bother listing their background).

I mentioned my PhD just for the irony. It doesn't matter to _me_, and it
shouldn't matter to the group (for which it's basically irrelevant). But for
a guy like Jaime, who claimed that we were all ignorant and he was the only
scientist here, I find it funny that I'm at least qualified to tell who a
good scientist is, and in the end it turns out that he isn't much of one.

This is all on top of the fact that it shouldn't matter whether you're a formal
scientist or not. What most people here are interested in is the details of
what you've actually done with reef aquariums, and what you observed while
doing it. How was your tank set up? What grew? How fast? What died?

I'm sure everyone's got their own pet theories about what matters. But the
ocean is incredibly complex, and it's hard to be sure we have the full story
about any particular species. So theories aren't generally as important in
the hobby as actual data. What (exactly!) did you do, and what happened?

Jaime's frustrating mostly because he makes enticing claims, that we would all
love to be true, but then refuses to provide any public data backing it up.
And then attempts to mock everyone else for wasting their money. It's an
unfortunate arrogance of a not-quite-authority figure.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
Raspberry walks into a bar, bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food here."
-- On Fruitopia bottle, "raspberry psychic lemonade" flavor

Listen Don!
I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My aquariums
by any means will be as good as any put together by a professional aquarist.
That is not my intention.
I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
than 8 months without a water change.
Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they? so,
don't make the choice for them...

jrs
"Don Geddis" wrote in message
...
AverageSchmuck wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2006:
Seriously why should it bother you that someone out their feels your
wasting your money.. Do you feel like your wasting your money?

His opinion of whether I'm wasting my money doesn't bother me at all.

The replies were all in service of innocent new reefkeepers. Novices
would
pose a typical question, and Jaime would laugh at them and tell them
they're
wasting their money. The more experienced reefkeepers on this group
wanted
to set the record straight for the benefit of the lurkers, who might
otherwise
believe that Jaime's claims were the collected wisdom of reef aquarists.

Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.

You missed the sarcasm of my post. When a guy tells you over and over
again
"you're all ignorant -- believe me because I'm a Marine Biologist!", then
it's
kind of funny if he turns out to have far fewer qualifications than many
of
the other posters here (who, in turn, don't bother listing their
background).

I mentioned my PhD just for the irony. It doesn't matter to _me_, and it
shouldn't matter to the group (for which it's basically irrelevant). But
for
a guy like Jaime, who claimed that we were all ignorant and he was the
only
scientist here, I find it funny that I'm at least qualified to tell who a
good scientist is, and in the end it turns out that he isn't much of one.

This is all on top of the fact that it shouldn't matter whether you're a
formal
scientist or not. What most people here are interested in is the details
of
what you've actually done with reef aquariums, and what you observed while
doing it. How was your tank set up? What grew? How fast? What died?

I'm sure everyone's got their own pet theories about what matters. But
the
ocean is incredibly complex, and it's hard to be sure we have the full
story
about any particular species. So theories aren't generally as important
in
the hobby as actual data. What (exactly!) did you do, and what happened?

Jaime's frustrating mostly because he makes enticing claims, that we would
all
love to be true, but then refuses to provide any public data backing it
up.
And then attempts to mock everyone else for wasting their money. It's an
unfortunate arrogance of a not-quite-authority figure.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis
http://reef.geddis.org/
Raspberry walks into a bar, bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food
here."
-- On Fruitopia bottle, "raspberry psychic lemonade" flavor

Going 8 months without a water change is not impressive.
It's no big deal. It's not a great accomplishment. Going 8
months without a water change is nothing. It's like a
person saying that they had a goldfish live for a wopping
2 years. Big deal. That's nothing.

But how about putting a picture of your inhabitants on
your web site for us to see.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets



J R-S wrote on 3/25/2006 8:27 AM:
Listen Don!
I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My aquariums
by any means will be as good as any put together by a professional aquarist.
That is not my intention.
I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
than 8 months without a water change.
Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they? so,
don't make the choice for them...

jrs
"Don Geddis" wrote in message
...
AverageSchmuck wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2006:
Seriously why should it bother you that someone out their feels your
wasting your money.. Do you feel like your wasting your money?
His opinion of whether I'm wasting my money doesn't bother me at all.

The replies were all in service of innocent new reefkeepers. Novices
would
pose a typical question, and Jaime would laugh at them and tell them
they're
wasting their money. The more experienced reefkeepers on this group
wanted
to set the record straight for the benefit of the lurkers, who might
otherwise
believe that Jaime's claims were the collected wisdom of reef aquarists.

Now that portion below has me .. You say "not facts, claims, or
credentials" but wasnt it you that laughed at him over the fact he is
hmm what was the tone you used .. oh yeah in a manner that you
appeared to be better or above him cause you attained a comp sciene
PHD 10 years ago. Seems to me it more about credentials than you say.
You missed the sarcasm of my post. When a guy tells you over and over
again
"you're all ignorant -- believe me because I'm a Marine Biologist!", then
it's
kind of funny if he turns out to have far fewer qualifications than many
of
the other posters here (who, in turn, don't bother listing their
background).

I mentioned my PhD just for the irony. It doesn't matter to _me_, and it
shouldn't matter to the group (for which it's basically irrelevant). But
for
a guy like Jaime, who claimed that we were all ignorant and he was the
only
scientist here, I find it funny that I'm at least qualified to tell who a
good scientist is, and in the end it turns out that he isn't much of one.

This is all on top of the fact that it shouldn't matter whether you're a
formal
scientist or not. What most people here are interested in is the details
of
what you've actually done with reef aquariums, and what you observed while
doing it. How was your tank set up? What grew? How fast? What died?

I'm sure everyone's got their own pet theories about what matters. But
the
ocean is incredibly complex, and it's hard to be sure we have the full
story
about any particular species. So theories aren't generally as important
in
the hobby as actual data. What (exactly!) did you do, and what happened?

Jaime's frustrating mostly because he makes enticing claims, that we would
all
love to be true, but then refuses to provide any public data backing it
up.
And then attempts to mock everyone else for wasting their money. It's an
unfortunate arrogance of a not-quite-authority figure.

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis
http://reef.geddis.org/
Raspberry walks into a bar, bartender says "Sorry, we don't serve food
here."
-- On Fruitopia bottle, "raspberry psychic lemonade" flavor

Wayne Sallee typed:
I'm a pack rat. I dont' like to through stuff away. I have
all my e-mail going back over 10 years.

I'd probably have all my personal email, but I never back it up and the pc
has crashed a couple times over the years. I don't consider newsgroup posts
email, though.

I keep all my STUFF instead...rolling eyes

J R-S typed:
Listen Don!
I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My
aquariums by any means will be as good as any put together by a
professional aquarist. That is not my intention.
I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for
more than 8 months without a water change.
Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't
they? so, don't make the choice for them...

jrs

You don't seem to grasp the fact that they don't *HAVE* the "choice" yet,
because your wonderful new system is not available. So it's *not* an
alternative, is it?

If they try to run a reef tank now without the "overrated" expensive
illumination that is all we have AVAILABLE at this time, it would *really*
be a waste, since their corals would die without the light.

Pre-advertising something that's not for sale could cost a lot of newbies a
lot of money, be cruel and frustrating and probably turn them off the hobby.

Why don't you come back when it's *on the market* and give us the link.

Cindy typed:
AverageSchmuck typed:
yeah but wouldnt you say that is a bit immature though.. He started
no he did.. You said she said .. But you did it first .. I got you
last .. etc.. It can go on forever without anything positive ever
resulting from it.

That's true. You are right.
I generally don't post much in this group because there are so many
helpful, knowledgable people who know so much more than I do. I
just jumped in here because whatshisbutt has been such a snot to
everyone here who actually know what they're talking about and
can/will back it up. So I'll jump back out now....

Sorry....I couldn't do it....I posted again. The ignorance was too much for
me.....
*sob*

"J R-S" wrote in message ...
Listen Don!
I just came here with an alternative to expensive aquariums. My aquariums
by any means will be as good as any put together by a professional aquarist.
That is not my intention.
I developed a fish-with-little-coral tank that has been working for more
than 8 months without a water change.
Not telling that to new aquarists and instead saying that the only
alternative is an overrated ilumination system is irresponsible.
But, they are free people, they can make their own choice, can't they? so,
don't make the choice for them...

Nobody here recomended overrated ilumination for a fish only tank...
What you call "overrated ilumination" is used on the SPS corals
(and you probably do not even know what SPS means, since it is
a hobbyist term, not scientific... right?). Only light-loving
corals from shallow waters require strong lights and metal halide
fixtures costing hundreds of dollars. Most other aquarium life,
including all "fish only tanks with little corals" can do fine with
standard fixtures available at Petco or even daylight lamps from Home Depot.
As you can see, what you have done is not revolutionary at all...
Similarly to using sand and activated carbon for filtration.

"Cindy" wrote in message t...
You don't seem to grasp the fact that they don't *HAVE* the "choice" yet,
because your wonderful new system is not available. So it's *not* an
alternative, is it?

If they try to run a reef tank now without the "overrated" expensive
illumination that is all we have AVAILABLE at this time, it would *really*
be a waste, since their corals would die without the light.

Pre-advertising something that's not for sale could cost a lot of newbies a
lot of money, be cruel and frustrating and probably turn them off the hobby.

Why don't you come back when it's *on the market* and give us the link.

Cindy, please note he is NOT talking about a reef tank.
He is talking about a fish only tank with little corals.
And considering this, it makes a whole different story.