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I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 10th 06, 09:40 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
Dave Head
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,144
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday

On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 09:07:17 -0700, Scott en Aztlán >
wrote:

>http://i2.tinypic.com/2j2hy1d.jpg
>
>So I was pulling into a strip mall parking lot yesterday evening (I
>was at the position marked in blue in the above picture). As I'm
>preparing to make a left turn along the path indicated by the blue
>arrow, I noticed an SUV stopped in the traffic lane at the location
>marked in red. A pedestrian was standing on the passenger side of the
>SUV attempting to enter the vehicle. In a scene straight out of
>"Saturday Night Fever," the driver of the SUV kept moving forward and
>reverse just as the pedestrian's hand was about to touch the door
>handle, preventing him from gripping the handle and opening the door.
>
>Now, I suppose I could have taken the path marked in yellow. Yes, it
>would have been driving the "wrong" way, but this was, after all, a
>parking lot, and the proper lane was being blocked by a MFFY. Or I
>could have continued straight ahead and taken the long way around.
>Instead, for a (literal) change of pace, I decided to follow the
>teachings of the JLEDI masters in this group, and I sat there and
>waited while these two assclowns ****ed around. Finally the pedestrian
>got in and the SUV pulled forward, clearing the way for me to complete
>my turn.
>
>Net loss: 30 seconds of my valuable time.
>Net gain: NOTHING.
>
>So I gotta ask you JLEDIs: what's in it for you? What do you get in
>exchange for the time that you allow others to steal from you? Do you
>get a warm fuzzy feeling inside? Do you feel better about yourself in
>some way? And what is it that stops you from defending yourself
>against those who would use you as their doormat?
>
>What am I missing?


What some people get is, I think, an opportunity to not start something that
they have no idea how it is going to end. For the price of 30 seconds, we get
less hassle in our daily lives. Getting somewhere 30 seconds earlier isn't
worth the price of the eventualities of attempting to use personal force to
make something happen your own way, even if you're right.

Using personal force is generally illegal. Doing something like using your car
to limit their driving back and forth might be construed in court as agressive
driving. Look at the way the laws are being applied today - they aren't "fair"
in a lot of cases, they seem to be applied to the nearest bystander. It
doesn't even have to be your fault, or your doing, or whatever - if you get
involved in an altercation, it can be _very_ expensive, and/or even end up with
jail time.

If there's something really illegal going on, I'll call a cop.

Not using personal force, but, say, getting out of the car and walking up to
give someone a tongue lashing is a way to get hurt. Is 30 seconds worth a
broken jaw? Or getting shot? Not to me.

What would I have done? Probably used the "other way" lane - hell, its just a
parking lot, not a police-patrolled street. Not likely to get a ticket. Doing
that avoids confrontation that is unpredictable in its outcome. Anything
confrontational that one can do is _still_ likely to take _more_ than the 30
seconds otherwise expended, and bring less acrimony and other negative feelings
into the world.

Avoid getting involved with other people in a negative way. Almost nothing
good can come from it, while the bad outcomes are virtually limitless. You
_ain't_ gonna "teach 'em a lesson" - they're never going to "get it". The only
thing they're going to "get" is that you're an annoying prick in their lives,
and something they may feel that _they_ need to deal with. A lawyer might sue
you - a gang member might shoot you. Why take the risk for a 30 second gain?
Anyone that thinks that equation works just does bad math, in my opinion.

As for parking lots, I regularly attempt to use pathways that avoid interacting
with other people at all. There's a Home Depot where there's the regular
entrance that everyone uses, that goes right in front of the store, and the 2nd
entrance, that deliveries and other people use. Its a little farther down the
road, but... the 1st entrance is characterized by people entering it and, 90%
of the time, finding some reason to stop and sit there. Drives me insane.
Sooo... I pass up that entrance, go into the truck entrance, and approach the
parking from the _other_ end of the lanes of parking, and I'm parked and into
the building before these others in the other end of lot get moving again. As
much as possible, I treat every parking lot like that. I often just take an
abrupt turn, right or left, when getting into the lot, and going down to the
_other_ end _away_ from the store, driving 'til I spot a place to park, and
then swooping in on it and getting it over with. Much faster, and I don't 1)
**** off someone else nor 2) get ****ed off myself. I _value_ not being ****ed
off... it _always_ is an unpleasant experience, and I try to avoid those.

Dave Head

Ads
  #2  
Old September 10th 06, 08:02 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Dave Head
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,144
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 09:02:30 -0700, Scott en Aztlán >
wrote:

>Dave Head > said in rec.autos.driving:
>
>>>What am I missing?

>>
>>What some people get is, I think, an opportunity to not start something that
>>they have no idea how it is going to end. For the price of 30 seconds, we get
>>less hassle in our daily lives. Getting somewhere 30 seconds earlier isn't
>>worth the price of the eventualities of attempting to use personal force to
>>make something happen your own way, even if you're right.

>
>What do you mean by "personal force?" You make it sound like I got out
>of my car and beat the **** out of these MFFYs with a baseball bat!


Was talking in general, not precisely about you or anyone else.

Personal force would be physically attempting to stop someone from doing
something.

>>Using personal force is generally illegal.

>
>Irrelevant, since I haven't used it.


Just in general...

>>Doing something like using your car
>>to limit their driving back and forth might be construed in court as agressive
>>driving.

>
>You must be speaking generally, as I have not used any "personal
>force," nor have I been involved in any altercations.


Right... generally / hypothetically.

>>What would I have done? Probably used the "other way" lane

>
>In other words, you would have done exactly what I did the other day:
>
>Message-ID: >


Uh - huh.

>Ordinarily, I would have done the same thing, but I decided to try my
>little experiment. The funny thing is, these JLEDI are *never* happy -
>they complain when I escape the MFFYs, and they complain when I just
>sit there and take it, even though that's what they claim they WANT me
>to do. It's beginning to appear as though some people just like to
>argue and provoke fights (i.e. they are trolls wearing JLEDI robes).


Usenet is a great place to provoke a fight and generally bitch about things...
<G>

>>hell, its just a
>>parking lot, not a police-patrolled street. Not likely to get a ticket. Doing
>>that avoids confrontation that is unpredictable in its outcome.

>
>My feelings exactly.


>[More preaching to the choir omitted.]
>
>>As for parking lots, I regularly attempt to use pathways that avoid interacting
>>with other people at all. There's a Home Depot where there's the regular
>>entrance that everyone uses, that goes right in front of the store, and the 2nd
>>entrance, that deliveries and other people use. Its a little farther down the
>>road, but... the 1st entrance is characterized by people entering it and, 90%
>>of the time, finding some reason to stop and sit there. Drives me insane.

>
>OH MY GOD, DAVE!!! YOU'RE A PRIME CANDIATE FOR A HEART ATTACK!!!


Yeppir! <G>

>(Or so my "fan club" would have you believe.)
>
>The reality is, EVERYBODY feels this way when other people needlessly
>interfere with our progress. The only difference between me and
>everyone else is that I post about my experiences on USENET.


>>Sooo... I pass up that entrance, go into the truck entrance, and approach the
>>parking from the _other_ end of the lanes of parking, and I'm parked and into
>>the building before these others in the other end of lot get moving again. As
>>much as possible, I treat every parking lot like that.

>
>Same here. While the lazy people are all circling like sharks for the
>"choice" spaces close to the front door, I have already parked in the
>wide open area where nobody else parks (but which is still highly
>visible to passers-by to discourage vandalism and theft) and am
>already walking inside the building.


Good idea!

>>Much faster, and I don't 1)
>>**** off someone else nor 2) get ****ed off myself. I _value_ not being ****ed
>>off... it _always_ is an unpleasant experience, and I try to avoid those.

>
>I couldn't agree more. Which is why I will escape the clutches of MFFY
>whenever possible, rather than sit there getting angry and frustrated.


I enjoy foiling them. That is, when they're trying to block, I'll endeavor to
escape. I figure being frustrated in their attempt to frustrate me will give
them some sorta heartburn, the thought of which makes me happy.

Had a big backup on I-74 south of Indianapolis once. There was an exit about
1/4 mile up the road, and having put on a road rally in the area, and knowing
about every back road there was around there, I knew that if I got to that
exit, I could parallel the interestate for about 10 miles and go around
whatever the delay was. I pulled into the breakdown lane to pass everyone and
access the exit, and asshole trucker pulls into the breakdown lane just to
block me. WTF does he care that I get down the road? Anyway, I just drove the
AWD Eclipse into the wide, shallow, grassy ditch and continued. Was hoping to
see him attempt to block me there - that damn rig would probably have rolled
over in the soft dirt... but he didn't. Pity. If it ****ed him off, then my
strategy worked...

Dave Head
  #3  
Old September 10th 06, 08:56 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
brink
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday


"Dave Head" > wrote in message
...
>
> Had a big backup on I-74 south of Indianapolis once. There was an exit
> about
> 1/4 mile up the road, and having put on a road rally in the area, and
> knowing
> about every back road there was around there, I knew that if I got to that
> exit, I could parallel the interestate for about 10 miles and go around
> whatever the delay was. I pulled into the breakdown lane to pass everyone
> and
> access the exit, and asshole trucker pulls into the breakdown lane just to
> block me. WTF does he care that I get down the road? Anyway, I just
> drove the
> AWD Eclipse into the wide, shallow, grassy ditch and continued. Was
> hoping to
> see him attempt to block me there - that damn rig would probably have
> rolled
> over in the soft dirt... but he didn't. Pity. If it ****ed him off, then
> my
> strategy worked...


Those are tough situations. I think you had every right to do what you did
and I would never begrudge someone doing it.

The problem is when people use it as a lane to try to get ahead of the queue
and then discover up ahead that they need to merge back into traffic because
of the construction/obstruction/accident/whatever. Then they cause the
backup to worse for the people who are waiting their turn.

I wish there were a way to signal one's intentions when one is using that
lane just to get the fudge off the roadway via the exit just ahead rather
than just using the shoulder as an illegal passing lane.

brink


  #4  
Old September 10th 06, 10:13 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Nate Nagel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,010
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday

brink wrote:
> "Dave Head" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Had a big backup on I-74 south of Indianapolis once. There was an exit
>>about
>>1/4 mile up the road, and having put on a road rally in the area, and
>>knowing
>>about every back road there was around there, I knew that if I got to that
>>exit, I could parallel the interestate for about 10 miles and go around
>>whatever the delay was. I pulled into the breakdown lane to pass everyone
>>and
>>access the exit, and asshole trucker pulls into the breakdown lane just to
>>block me. WTF does he care that I get down the road? Anyway, I just
>>drove the
>>AWD Eclipse into the wide, shallow, grassy ditch and continued. Was
>>hoping to
>>see him attempt to block me there - that damn rig would probably have
>>rolled
>>over in the soft dirt... but he didn't. Pity. If it ****ed him off, then
>>my
>>strategy worked...

>
>
> Those are tough situations. I think you had every right to do what you did
> and I would never begrudge someone doing it.
>
> The problem is when people use it as a lane to try to get ahead of the queue
> and then discover up ahead that they need to merge back into traffic because
> of the construction/obstruction/accident/whatever. Then they cause the
> backup to worse for the people who are waiting their turn.


If someone in good faith goes into an open travel lane only to
"discover" (your word) that the lane closes after having passed other
traffic, it's hard to fault them. It's an open travel lane, after all,
and if everyone is merging correctly, they won't cause the backup to
worsen in any case.

Now people who use ramps to do this are another matter, and if they end
up stuck at the end of a ramp until the heat death of the universe, eh,
no skin off my nose.

>
> I wish there were a way to signal one's intentions when one is using that
> lane just to get the fudge off the roadway via the exit just ahead rather
> than just using the shoulder as an illegal passing lane.


You mean, like a directional signal?

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #5  
Old September 10th 06, 11:13 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
brink
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday


"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
> brink wrote:
>> "Dave Head" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Had a big backup on I-74 south of Indianapolis once. There was an exit
>>>about
>>>1/4 mile up the road, and having put on a road rally in the area, and
>>>knowing
>>>about every back road there was around there, I knew that if I got to
>>>that
>>>exit, I could parallel the interestate for about 10 miles and go around
>>>whatever the delay was. I pulled into the breakdown lane to pass
>>>everyone and
>>>access the exit, and asshole trucker pulls into the breakdown lane just
>>>to
>>>block me. WTF does he care that I get down the road? Anyway, I just
>>>drove the
>>>AWD Eclipse into the wide, shallow, grassy ditch and continued. Was
>>>hoping to
>>>see him attempt to block me there - that damn rig would probably have
>>>rolled
>>>over in the soft dirt... but he didn't. Pity. If it ****ed him off,
>>>then my
>>>strategy worked...

>>
>>
>> Those are tough situations. I think you had every right to do what you
>> did and I would never begrudge someone doing it.
>>
>> The problem is when people use it as a lane to try to get ahead of the
>> queue and then discover up ahead that they need to merge back into
>> traffic because of the construction/obstruction/accident/whatever. Then
>> they cause the backup to worse for the people who are waiting their turn.

>
> If someone in good faith goes into an open travel lane only to "discover"
> (your word) that the lane closes after having passed other traffic, it's
> hard to fault them. It's an open travel lane, after all, and if everyone
> is merging correctly, they won't cause the backup to worsen in any case.


I'm not referring to an open travel lane, I'm referring to the paved or
unpaved shoulder which isn't an "open travel lane" in most states. It's for
emergency use only, and under any definition I sure wouldn't call it open
season for queue-jumping.

>
> Now people who use ramps to do this are another matter, and if they end up
> stuck at the end of a ramp until the heat death of the universe, eh, no
> skin off my nose.


Agreed.

>>
>> I wish there were a way to signal one's intentions when one is using that
>> lane just to get the fudge off the roadway via the exit just ahead rather
>> than just using the shoulder as an illegal passing lane.

>
> You mean, like a directional signal?


Problem is, the directional signal is ambiguous. People will turn on their
signal and drive for a mile in that lane just to bypass traffic and try to
cut in ahead when someone lets the "poor guy" in.

What's really too bad is what happens to guys like Dave who are -- in my
opinion, legitimately -- bypassing traffic just to make an *exit* 1000 feet
ahead. No sense waiting in line when the exit is wide open and I'd guess
most other drivers don't have a problem with it either. What most of us
have a problem with is the people who abuse the privilege, so to speak, of
driving on the shoulder.

brink


  #6  
Old September 10th 06, 11:37 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Nate Nagel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,010
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday

brink wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>brink wrote:
>>
>>>"Dave Head" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Had a big backup on I-74 south of Indianapolis once. There was an exit
>>>>about
>>>>1/4 mile up the road, and having put on a road rally in the area, and
>>>>knowing
>>>>about every back road there was around there, I knew that if I got to
>>>>that
>>>>exit, I could parallel the interestate for about 10 miles and go around
>>>>whatever the delay was. I pulled into the breakdown lane to pass
>>>>everyone and
>>>>access the exit, and asshole trucker pulls into the breakdown lane just
>>>>to
>>>>block me. WTF does he care that I get down the road? Anyway, I just
>>>>drove the
>>>>AWD Eclipse into the wide, shallow, grassy ditch and continued. Was
>>>>hoping to
>>>>see him attempt to block me there - that damn rig would probably have
>>>>rolled
>>>>over in the soft dirt... but he didn't. Pity. If it ****ed him off,
>>>>then my
>>>>strategy worked...
>>>
>>>
>>>Those are tough situations. I think you had every right to do what you
>>>did and I would never begrudge someone doing it.
>>>
>>>The problem is when people use it as a lane to try to get ahead of the
>>>queue and then discover up ahead that they need to merge back into
>>>traffic because of the construction/obstruction/accident/whatever. Then
>>>they cause the backup to worse for the people who are waiting their turn.

>>
>>If someone in good faith goes into an open travel lane only to "discover"
>>(your word) that the lane closes after having passed other traffic, it's
>>hard to fault them. It's an open travel lane, after all, and if everyone
>>is merging correctly, they won't cause the backup to worsen in any case.

>
>
> I'm not referring to an open travel lane, I'm referring to the paved or
> unpaved shoulder which isn't an "open travel lane" in most states. It's for
> emergency use only, and under any definition I sure wouldn't call it open
> season for queue-jumping.
>
>
>>Now people who use ramps to do this are another matter, and if they end up
>>stuck at the end of a ramp until the heat death of the universe, eh, no
>>skin off my nose.

>
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>>>I wish there were a way to signal one's intentions when one is using that
>>>lane just to get the fudge off the roadway via the exit just ahead rather
>>>than just using the shoulder as an illegal passing lane.

>>
>>You mean, like a directional signal?

>
>
> Problem is, the directional signal is ambiguous. People will turn on their
> signal and drive for a mile in that lane just to bypass traffic and try to
> cut in ahead when someone lets the "poor guy" in.
>
> What's really too bad is what happens to guys like Dave who are -- in my
> opinion, legitimately -- bypassing traffic just to make an *exit* 1000 feet
> ahead. No sense waiting in line when the exit is wide open and I'd guess
> most other drivers don't have a problem with it either. What most of us
> have a problem with is the people who abuse the privilege, so to speak, of
> driving on the shoulder.
>
> brink
>
>


There's an easy solution to that problem; watch your mirrors, and don't
let anyone in that didn't come down an onramp.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #7  
Old September 10th 06, 11:41 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
Jim Yanik
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,773
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday

Nate Nagel > wrote in
:

>
> If someone in good faith goes into an open travel lane only to
> "discover" (your word) that the lane closes after having passed other
> traffic, it's hard to fault them. It's an open travel lane, after
> all, and if everyone is merging correctly, they won't cause the backup
> to worsen in any case.


Except that it's usually very clearly marked that the lane closes ahead.
IMO,it's *intentional* to try to use the "open" closing lane to get by a
line of traffic.("jump the queue".)
They do it because they can count on some enabler to let them back in.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
  #8  
Old September 11th 06, 12:09 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
Nate Nagel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,010
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Nate Nagel > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>If someone in good faith goes into an open travel lane only to
>>"discover" (your word) that the lane closes after having passed other
>>traffic, it's hard to fault them. It's an open travel lane, after
>>all, and if everyone is merging correctly, they won't cause the backup
>>to worsen in any case.

>
>
> Except that it's usually very clearly marked that the lane closes ahead.
> IMO,it's *intentional* to try to use the "open" closing lane to get by a
> line of traffic.("jump the queue".)
> They do it because they can count on some enabler to let them back in.
>


um, it's a LEGAL TRAFFIC LANE. they are doing nothing wrong in that
example. In fact, a courteous driver would let in one person (but only
one!) from the closing lane at the merge point. In some places, that's
even a legal requirement.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #9  
Old September 11th 06, 12:21 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
brink
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday


"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
> brink wrote:
>> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>brink wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Dave Head" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Had a big backup on I-74 south of Indianapolis once. There was an exit
>>>>>about
>>>>>1/4 mile up the road, and having put on a road rally in the area, and
>>>>>knowing
>>>>>about every back road there was around there, I knew that if I got to
>>>>>that
>>>>>exit, I could parallel the interestate for about 10 miles and go around
>>>>>whatever the delay was. I pulled into the breakdown lane to pass
>>>>>everyone and
>>>>>access the exit, and asshole trucker pulls into the breakdown lane just
>>>>>to
>>>>>block me. WTF does he care that I get down the road? Anyway, I just
>>>>>drove the
>>>>>AWD Eclipse into the wide, shallow, grassy ditch and continued. Was
>>>>>hoping to
>>>>>see him attempt to block me there - that damn rig would probably have
>>>>>rolled
>>>>>over in the soft dirt... but he didn't. Pity. If it ****ed him off,
>>>>>then my
>>>>>strategy worked...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Those are tough situations. I think you had every right to do what you
>>>>did and I would never begrudge someone doing it.
>>>>
>>>>The problem is when people use it as a lane to try to get ahead of the
>>>>queue and then discover up ahead that they need to merge back into
>>>>traffic because of the construction/obstruction/accident/whatever. Then
>>>>they cause the backup to worse for the people who are waiting their
>>>>turn.
>>>
>>>If someone in good faith goes into an open travel lane only to "discover"
>>>(your word) that the lane closes after having passed other traffic, it's
>>>hard to fault them. It's an open travel lane, after all, and if everyone
>>>is merging correctly, they won't cause the backup to worsen in any case.

>>
>>
>> I'm not referring to an open travel lane, I'm referring to the paved or
>> unpaved shoulder which isn't an "open travel lane" in most states. It's
>> for emergency use only, and under any definition I sure wouldn't call it
>> open season for queue-jumping.
>>
>>
>>>Now people who use ramps to do this are another matter, and if they end
>>>up stuck at the end of a ramp until the heat death of the universe, eh,
>>>no skin off my nose.

>>
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>>
>>>>I wish there were a way to signal one's intentions when one is using
>>>>that lane just to get the fudge off the roadway via the exit just ahead
>>>>rather than just using the shoulder as an illegal passing lane.
>>>
>>>You mean, like a directional signal?

>>
>>
>> Problem is, the directional signal is ambiguous. People will turn on
>> their signal and drive for a mile in that lane just to bypass traffic and
>> try to cut in ahead when someone lets the "poor guy" in.
>>
>> What's really too bad is what happens to guys like Dave who are -- in my
>> opinion, legitimately -- bypassing traffic just to make an *exit* 1000
>> feet ahead. No sense waiting in line when the exit is wide open and I'd
>> guess most other drivers don't have a problem with it either. What most
>> of us have a problem with is the people who abuse the privilege, so to
>> speak, of driving on the shoulder.
>>
>> brink

>
> There's an easy solution to that problem; watch your mirrors, and don't
> let anyone in that didn't come down an onramp.


tough to see that sometimes. These queues can stretch a *long* ways and if
there's say a big truck behind you -- or a bend in the road that is carrying
the roadway toward the left.

The other problem is that you and I won't let those people in, but of course
all it takes is one weak link in the chain. People know this and exploit
it. Which can *really* worsen the jam...

brink


  #10  
Old September 11th 06, 04:40 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
Jim Yanik
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,773
Default I Was a Patient JLEDI Yesterday

Nate Nagel > wrote in
:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Nate Nagel > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>>If someone in good faith goes into an open travel lane only to
>>>"discover" (your word) that the lane closes after having passed other
>>>traffic, it's hard to fault them. It's an open travel lane, after
>>>all, and if everyone is merging correctly, they won't cause the
>>>backup to worsen in any case.

>>
>>
>> Except that it's usually very clearly marked that the lane closes
>> ahead. IMO,it's *intentional* to try to use the "open" closing lane
>> to get by a line of traffic.("jump the queue".)
>> They do it because they can count on some enabler to let them back
>> in.
>>

>
> um, it's a LEGAL TRAFFIC LANE. they are doing nothing wrong in that
> example.


Actually,they did;they IGNORED the signs warning them the lane is closing
ahead;the ones *meant to give them time to merge BEFORE they come to the
end*.(otherwise,there'd be no need for advance warning signs)

> In fact, a courteous driver would let in one person (but
> only one!) from the closing lane at the merge point. In some places,
> that's even a legal requirement.
>
> nate
>


Of course,the NG has been thru this merge topic before.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
 




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