Interesting site

http://www.carbibles.com/

I found some interesting reading here, including suspension, oil, etc.

The site owner seems to give more documentation than many.

Hope you find it worthwhile.

That's blasphemy... LOL

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com

On 26 Jan 2006 10:53:39 -0800, "Professor"
> wrote:

>That's blasphemy... LOL
>
>Professor
>www.telstar-electronics.com

I don't even agree with the site, calling it *Bibles* notwithstanding.
Read the author's attitude about ABS brake systems. I think he is
*full of it.* ABS has save my Life.

Anecdote:
One night I was driving back to Chicago from Fort Wayne Indiana,
returning from a job. IIRC, the weekend was coming up, and it was
most likely a Friday night and I wanted to get home a.s.a.p. but was
getting to the point I =had= to take a rest at a rest stop.

So I see one at the last moment and turn onto the ramp to take me into
the rest area. What I didn't see or know is that the entire ramp was
covered with "black Ice." IOW, I had just put my vehicle on a skating
rink, at faster than it should have been going. The ABS kicked in (
to my surprise and for the first time ) and allowed me to take the
turn without leaving the tarmac. Had those been *regular* brakes, I
would have gone flying off the ramp into trees, and probably wouldn't
be here now typing away.

So if I know the author is wrong about that, what else is he wrong
about?

The problem with his site is he puts in way too much opinion, and way
to little Science.

Lg

Lawrence Glickman > wrote in article
>...

"Professor's" SPAM clipped.....

> I don't even agree with the site, calling it *Bibles* notwithstanding.
> Read the author's attitude about ABS brake systems. I think he is
> *full of it.* ABS has save my Life.
>
> Anecdote:
> One night I was driving back to Chicago from Fort Wayne Indiana,
> returning from a job. IIRC, the weekend was coming up, and it was
> most likely a Friday night and I wanted to get home a.s.a.p. but was
> getting to the point I =had= to take a rest at a rest stop.
>
> So I see one at the last moment and turn onto the ramp to take me into
> the rest area. What I didn't see or know is that the entire ramp was
> covered with "black Ice." IOW, I had just put my vehicle on a skating
> rink, at faster than it should have been going. The ABS kicked in (
> to my surprise and for the first time ) and allowed me to take the
> turn without leaving the tarmac. Had those been *regular* brakes, I
> would have gone flying off the ramp into trees, and probably wouldn't
> be here now typing away.
>
> So if I know the author is wrong about that, what else is he wrong
> about?
>

So, YOU were driving too fast for the weather conditions.....which were,
apparently, conducive to the formation of "black ice."

If you live in such an area, you should recognize the conditions that are
conducive to the formation of "black ice", and adjust your driving
accordingly.....but, you obviously didn't!

You SHOULD have crashed due to your inattention to driving conditions......

NOW, you're convinced that ABS "saved" you, and it is the greatest thing
since sliced bread.

Perhaps you NOW feel.....ever-so-slightly......that strict attention to the
road isn't quite so necessary - since the ABS is there to "save" you.

Your story fits his definition of the "false courage" that ABS
provides......

I quote him below......

=============
So many people think ABS gives them a license to drive faster, because they
mistakenly believe that ABS will get them out of any situation. It's yet
another technical placebo that has been put into vehicles which is making
the standard of driving worse. The more gadgets and "driver aids" that get
put into a car, the worse the drivers become because they live in a
pink-spectacled world where they believe that the car will get them out of
any problem they cause. =============


If you research ABS, you will discover that it was developed to compensate
for the horrible engineering that brought us Front-Wheel-Drive - the
automobile manufacturers' way to reduce vehicle size, while maintaining
passenger compartmemnt room by mounting the engine transversely and driving
the front wheels.

With so much weight concentrated on the front wheels, it's no wonder the
rears on early FWD cars locked up so easily.

Who doesn't remember the horrible braking of the early GM "X" cars -
Cavaliers, etc..??

Engineering developed ABS to "fix" this problem......

Marketing converted this "feature" to a consumer "benefit"......

My ABS "experiences" include rolling right through a stop sign on ice when
my rear wheels - with studded snow tires" would not lock up and allow the
studs to do their thing.......

I now unplug it in the winter and put up with the light on the dash.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:19:57 -0600, "*" > wrote:

>
>
>Lawrence Glickman > wrote in article
>...
>
>"Professor's" SPAM clipped.....
>
>> I don't even agree with the site, calling it *Bibles* notwithstanding.
>> Read the author's attitude about ABS brake systems. I think he is
>> *full of it.* ABS has save my Life.
>>
>> Anecdote:
>> One night I was driving back to Chicago from Fort Wayne Indiana,
>> returning from a job. IIRC, the weekend was coming up, and it was
>> most likely a Friday night and I wanted to get home a.s.a.p. but was
>> getting to the point I =had= to take a rest at a rest stop.
>>
>> So I see one at the last moment and turn onto the ramp to take me into
>> the rest area. What I didn't see or know is that the entire ramp was
>> covered with "black Ice." IOW, I had just put my vehicle on a skating
>> rink, at faster than it should have been going. The ABS kicked in (
>> to my surprise and for the first time ) and allowed me to take the
>> turn without leaving the tarmac. Had those been *regular* brakes, I
>> would have gone flying off the ramp into trees, and probably wouldn't
>> be here now typing away.
>>
>> So if I know the author is wrong about that, what else is he wrong
>> about?
>>
>
>So, YOU were driving too fast for the weather conditions.....which were,
>apparently, conducive to the formation of "black ice."
>
>If you live in such an area, you should recognize the conditions that are
>conducive to the formation of "black ice", and adjust your driving
>accordingly.....but, you obviously didn't!
>
>You SHOULD have crashed due to your inattention to driving conditions......
>
>NOW, you're convinced that ABS "saved" you, and it is the greatest thing
>since sliced bread.
>
>Perhaps you NOW feel.....ever-so-slightly......that strict attention to the
>road isn't quite so necessary - since the ABS is there to "save" you.
>
>Your story fits his definition of the "false courage" that ABS
>provides......
>
>I quote him below......
>
>=============
>So many people think ABS gives them a license to drive faster, because they
>mistakenly believe that ABS will get them out of any situation. It's yet
>another technical placebo that has been put into vehicles which is making
>the standard of driving worse. The more gadgets and "driver aids" that get
>put into a car, the worse the drivers become because they live in a
>pink-spectacled world where they believe that the car will get them out of
>any problem they cause. =============
>
>
>If you research ABS, you will discover that it was developed to compensate
>for the horrible engineering that brought us Front-Wheel-Drive - the
>automobile manufacturers' way to reduce vehicle size, while maintaining
>passenger compartmemnt room by mounting the engine transversely and driving
>the front wheels.
>
>With so much weight concentrated on the front wheels, it's no wonder the
>rears on early FWD cars locked up so easily.
>
>Who doesn't remember the horrible braking of the early GM "X" cars -
>Cavaliers, etc..??
>
>Engineering developed ABS to "fix" this problem......
>
>Marketing converted this "feature" to a consumer "benefit"......
>
>My ABS "experiences" include rolling right through a stop sign on ice when
>my rear wheels - with studded snow tires" would not lock up and allow the
>studs to do their thing.......
>
>I now unplug it in the winter and put up with the light on the dash.
>

I was driving under less than ideal conditions. So does everyone else
on the planet unless you live in California.

It was dark, the highway was DRY! get it? No? then **** off.

Lg

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:36:52 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:

>On 26 Jan 2006 10:53:39 -0800, "Professor"
> wrote:
>
>>That's blasphemy... LOL
>>
>>Professor
>>www.telstar-electronics.com
>
>I don't even agree with the site, calling it *Bibles* notwithstanding.
>Read the author's attitude about ABS brake systems. I think he is
>*full of it.* ABS has save my Life.
>
>Anecdote:
>One night I was driving back to Chicago from Fort Wayne Indiana,
>returning from a job. IIRC, the weekend was coming up, and it was
>most likely a Friday night and I wanted to get home a.s.a.p. but was
>getting to the point I =had= to take a rest at a rest stop.
>
>So I see one at the last moment and turn onto the ramp to take me into
>the rest area. What I didn't see or know is that the entire ramp was
>covered with "black Ice." IOW, I had just put my vehicle on a skating
>rink, at faster than it should have been going. The ABS kicked in (
>to my surprise and for the first time ) and allowed me to take the
>turn without leaving the tarmac. Had those been *regular* brakes, I
>would have gone flying off the ramp into trees, and probably wouldn't
>be here now typing away.
>
>So if I know the author is wrong about that, what else is he wrong
>about?
>
>The problem with his site is he puts in way too much opinion, and way
>to little Science.
>
>Lg

Please... tell me where I can see "black ice". Another dumbed down
phrase from the lexicon of the media. Why not just call it ICE? Is
it black when it's on a concrete roadway? That I want to see.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:51:35 GMT, wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:36:52 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:
>
>>On 26 Jan 2006 10:53:39 -0800, "Professor"
> wrote:
>>
>>>That's blasphemy... LOL
>>>
>>>Professor
>>>www.telstar-electronics.com
>>
>>I don't even agree with the site, calling it *Bibles* notwithstanding.
>>Read the author's attitude about ABS brake systems. I think he is
>>*full of it.* ABS has save my Life.
>>
>>Anecdote:
>>One night I was driving back to Chicago from Fort Wayne Indiana,
>>returning from a job. IIRC, the weekend was coming up, and it was
>>most likely a Friday night and I wanted to get home a.s.a.p. but was
>>getting to the point I =had= to take a rest at a rest stop.
>>
>>So I see one at the last moment and turn onto the ramp to take me into
>>the rest area. What I didn't see or know is that the entire ramp was
>>covered with "black Ice." IOW, I had just put my vehicle on a skating
>>rink, at faster than it should have been going. The ABS kicked in (
>>to my surprise and for the first time ) and allowed me to take the
>>turn without leaving the tarmac. Had those been *regular* brakes, I
>>would have gone flying off the ramp into trees, and probably wouldn't
>>be here now typing away.
>>
>>So if I know the author is wrong about that, what else is he wrong
>>about?
>>
>>The problem with his site is he puts in way too much opinion, and way
>>to little Science.
>>
>>Lg
>
>Please... tell me where I can see "black ice". Another dumbed down
>phrase from the lexicon of the media. Why not just call it ICE? Is
>it black when it's on a concrete roadway? That I want to see.

The highway is concrete. The exit ramp into the rest area is asphalt
IIRC, as is the rest area itself, IIRC. And it is night time, and
there is no illumination except from my headlights, and I could not
see the ice, it was invisible, but my ABS sure the heck felt it, and
kicked it for the duration of the entire turn, slowing me down and
keeping the vehicle on the radius.

We call that *stuff* black ice up here. Stuff that is there but
invisible to the human eye. I don't know where that name came from,
but it is used to describe ice that is invisible. THAT ice was
invisible. I am certain that somebody without ABS took that off ramp
and never made it into the rest area. I've seen that so many times, I
can't count the number of vehicles with headlights up in ditches.

Lg

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:51:35 GMT, wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:36:52 -0600, Lawrence Glickman
> wrote:
>
>>On 26 Jan 2006 10:53:39 -0800, "Professor"
> wrote:
>>
>>>That's blasphemy... LOL
>>>
>>>Professor
>>>www.telstar-electronics.com
>>
>>I don't even agree with the site, calling it *Bibles* notwithstanding.
>>Read the author's attitude about ABS brake systems. I think he is
>>*full of it.* ABS has save my Life.
>>
>>Anecdote:
>>One night I was driving back to Chicago from Fort Wayne Indiana,
>>returning from a job. IIRC, the weekend was coming up, and it was
>>most likely a Friday night and I wanted to get home a.s.a.p. but was
>>getting to the point I =had= to take a rest at a rest stop.
>>
>>So I see one at the last moment and turn onto the ramp to take me into
>>the rest area. What I didn't see or know is that the entire ramp was
>>covered with "black Ice." IOW, I had just put my vehicle on a skating
>>rink, at faster than it should have been going. The ABS kicked in (
>>to my surprise and for the first time ) and allowed me to take the
>>turn without leaving the tarmac. Had those been *regular* brakes, I
>>would have gone flying off the ramp into trees, and probably wouldn't
>>be here now typing away.
>>
>>So if I know the author is wrong about that, what else is he wrong
>>about?
>>
>>The problem with his site is he puts in way too much opinion, and way
>>to little Science.
>>
>>Lg
>
>Please... tell me where I can see "black ice". Another dumbed down
>phrase from the lexicon of the media. Why not just call it ICE? Is
>it black when it's on a concrete roadway? That I want to see.

The highway is concrete. The exit ramp into the rest area is asphalt
IIRC, as is the rest area itself, IIRC. And it is night time, and
there is no illumination except from my headlights, and I could not
see the ice, it was invisible, but my ABS sure the heck felt it, and
kicked it for the duration of the entire turn, slowing me down and
keeping the vehicle on the radius.

We call that *stuff* black ice up here. Stuff that is there but
invisible to the human eye. I don't know where that name came from,
but it is used to describe ice that is invisible. THAT ice was
invisible. I am certain that somebody without ABS took that off ramp
and never made it into the rest area. I've seen that so many times, I
can't count the number of vehicles with headlights up in ditches.

Lg
================================================== =====================
December 1, 1997

Black Ice Is Dangerous
Wintertime Road Hazard

Black Ice is an age-old winter phenomenon that has sent many a driver
skidding and sliding down what looked like a dry road.

"What we call black ice is frozen water -- either sleet or rain or
from melted snow -- that freezes as a sheet and is not visible as
ice," says Glen Hetzel, safety specialist with Virginia Cooperative
Extension at Virginia Tech. "The road looks the same as it always
does, which is why it's so hard to detect, especially if you've been
driving for awhile."

What can a person do to prepare for black ice?

"My advice is to look for signs of ice other than on the roadway,"
Hetzel says. That means looking for ice on windshield wipers or
sideview mirrors, on road signs, trees or fences along the highway. If
ice is forming on any of those things, it's possible that it may be on
the road as well.

Then again, ice may not have formed on anything but the road. For
example, it may have been a warm day during which the snow melted and
then froze as ice after the temperature dropped at night. In other
cases there will be ice in shaded areas, such as cuts through hills
and along banks, before there will be ice on the open roads. "If you
suspect there could be black ice on the pavement, you may want to test
for it by gently wiggling the car a little bit or by applying the
brakes lightly to see if there's any change in the feel of the road,"
Hetzel explains.

Black ice is also one of the winter hazards that four-wheel drive
cannot overcome. "Some of us get complacent because we have four-wheel
drive," says Hetzel. "However, you need to be just as careful as the
motorist who has a rear-wheel drive vehicle when it comes to ice on
the roadway."

Another good tip for winter driving is to listen to the radio for
reports on the temperature outside. "When the roads have been wet and
the temperature drops below freezing, ice can form quickly," he adds.

"If you are a person who must drive frequently in winter weather, it
is a good idea to install an outdoor thermometer in the car," Hetzel
suggests. "This will allow you to monitor the outside temperature.
These thermometers are available at auto supply stores."

This is also the type of weather when it is especially important to
watch for those signs that remind drivers that bridges freeze before
roads. "These signs tell you there is a bridge ahead and give you time
to slow down so you have better control just in case there is ice on
the bridge pavement," Hetzel notes.

Freezing weather causes hazardous driving conditions. Even if
precipitation doesn't fall, roads can turn into ice rinks. This
condition is called black ice, and some call it a weather phenomenon.

Black ice fools drivers. Its shine tricks them into thinking it's
water on the road. What they may not realize is that condensation,
such as dew, freezes when temperatures reach 32 degrees or below. This
forms an extra-thin layer of ice on the road.

This shiny ice surface is one of the most slippery road conditions.
Black ice is likely to form first under bridges and overpasses, in
shady spots and at intersections.

http://www.simonds.melb.catholic.edu.../blackice.html

> So, YOU were driving too fast for the weather conditions.....which were,
> apparently, conducive to the formation of "black ice."
>
> If you live in such an area, you should recognize the conditions that are
> conducive to the formation of "black ice", and adjust your driving
> accordingly.....but, you obviously didn't!
>
> You SHOULD have crashed due to your inattention to driving conditions......
>
> NOW, you're convinced that ABS "saved" you, and it is the greatest thing
> since sliced bread.
>
> Perhaps you NOW feel.....ever-so-slightly......that strict attention to the
> road isn't quite so necessary - since the ABS is there to "save" you.
>
> Your story fits his definition of the "false courage" that ABS
> provides......
>
I non concur to all that you have posted. ABS was designed to allow a
driver to steer / maneuver the vehicle during a skid. It does
exceptional at that. It it used during all weather conditions...to
include DRY.

If you ask any driver on their level of expertise, I would venture to
say that 99% will say that they are in the top 3% of all the drivers in
the world. So where are all these drivers that fall in the bottom 97%?
They are each and everyone of us at different times depending on our
rest and physical and emotional state. Every driver can act different
during a sudden panic than if they have time to react. The same
individual driver can react differently depending on his level of rest,
emotional, and physical stress levels.

In snow ice driving, we were taught to pump the brakes. How fast can
you pump the brakes? 3-4 times a second would be pushing it. ABS can do
it ten or more times that fast. Finally ask your self this....Would you
feel more comfortable with your wife and children in a vehicle with ABS
or without? If your answer is without, you probably have quite the life
insurance policy.

> wrote in message
...

> Please... tell me where I can see "black ice". Another dumbed down
> phrase from the lexicon of the media. Why not just call it ICE? Is
> it black when it's on a concrete roadway? That I want to see.

I've been exposed to it. It is essentially invisible on the road surface,
but
suddenly you hit a patch that is owl**** slippery.. Scary as hell.

I learned to watch out for it when I lived in Scotland. I believe that some
cars of the time even had sensors to let you know when the conditions were
right for it.