'95 Civic DX bogging until warm

Recently, I purchased a '95 Civic DX with about 226k on it. When I
first got it, when the engine was cold it would have a roaming idle
between 500 and 2k RPM. I cleaned the IACV and also cleaned and closed
the FITV. Well, it stalled after I did that, so I opened the FITV up a
bit and it idles low and I have to feather the gas pedal to keep it
going. But, even then, if I slam on the throttle I get surging and
almost no throttle response.

After it's at running temperature, it runs great. If warm, it fires up
and idles/drives strong. It does burn a lot of oil in first and second
at 4k+. And also there is a slight squealing noise when shifting
(timing belt loose?). I've been told that it may be the ignition
control module. So, I'm going to swap the one out of my CRX tomorrow
and see if that helps any.

I have an '88 CRX si so I'm not new to Hondas, just these particular
problems.

Thanks in advance

wrote:
> Recently, I purchased a '95 Civic DX with about 226k on it. When I
> first got it, when the engine was cold it would have a roaming idle
> between 500 and 2k RPM. I cleaned the IACV and also cleaned and closed
> the FITV. Well, it stalled after I did that, so I opened the FITV up a
> bit and it idles low and I have to feather the gas pedal to keep it
> going. But, even then, if I slam on the throttle I get surging and
> almost no throttle response.
>
> After it's at running temperature, it runs great. If warm, it fires up
> and idles/drives strong. It does burn a lot of oil in first and second
> at 4k+. And also there is a slight squealing noise when shifting
> (timing belt loose?). I've been told that it may be the ignition
> control module. So, I'm going to swap the one out of my CRX tomorrow
> and see if that helps any.
>
> I have an '88 CRX si so I'm not new to Hondas, just these particular
> problems.
>
> Thanks in advance

-------------------------------

I'd guess your cam timing is out by a tooth or two. I'll bet your
distributor is cranked all the way to one end of the allowable
adjustment, right? (that's the compensation method).
Try keeping your coolant reservoir full to the MAX mark too. Your valves
are likely getting tight too at that high mileage.

'Curly'

motsco_ wrote:
> wrote:
>> Recently, I purchased a '95 Civic DX with about 226k on it. When I
>> first got it, when the engine was cold it would have a roaming idle
>> between 500 and 2k RPM. I cleaned the IACV and also cleaned and closed
>> the FITV. Well, it stalled after I did that, so I opened the FITV up a
>> bit and it idles low and I have to feather the gas pedal to keep it
>> going. But, even then, if I slam on the throttle I get surging and
>> almost no throttle response.
>>
>> After it's at running temperature, it runs great. If warm, it fires up
>> and idles/drives strong. It does burn a lot of oil in first and second
>> at 4k+. And also there is a slight squealing noise when shifting
>> (timing belt loose?). I've been told that it may be the ignition
>> control module. So, I'm going to swap the one out of my CRX tomorrow
>> and see if that helps any.
>>
>> I have an '88 CRX si so I'm not new to Hondas, just these particular
>> problems.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>
> -------------------------------
>
> I'd guess your cam timing is out by a tooth or two.

no, it wouldn't run well when warm.

> I'll bet your
> distributor is cranked all the way to one end of the allowable
> adjustment, right? (that's the compensation method).
> Try keeping your coolant reservoir full to the MAX mark too. Your valves
> are likely getting tight too at that high mileage.
>
> 'Curly'

wrote:
> Recently, I purchased a '95 Civic DX with about 226k on it. When I
> first got it, when the engine was cold it would have a roaming idle
> between 500 and 2k RPM. I cleaned the IACV and also cleaned and closed
> the FITV. Well, it stalled after I did that, so I opened the FITV up a
> bit and it idles low and I have to feather the gas pedal to keep it
> going. But, even then, if I slam on the throttle I get surging and
> almost no throttle response.
>
> After it's at running temperature, it runs great. If warm, it fires up
> and idles/drives strong. It does burn a lot of oil in first and second
> at 4k+. And also there is a slight squealing noise when shifting
> (timing belt loose?). I've been told that it may be the ignition
> control module. So, I'm going to swap the one out of my CRX tomorrow
> and see if that helps any.
>
> I have an '88 CRX si so I'm not new to Hondas, just these particular
> problems.
>
> Thanks in advance

1. check your coolant level, inside the radiator, not the expansion
reservoir.

2. check your ignition system. cracked distributor caps can be very
problematic while the engine's cold but perform great when warm.

3. don't mess with stuff like the fast idle control by "opening it up a
bit". it's set at factory, and as long as the diaphragm functions, you
don't need to adjust anything.

4. why would it burn oil in first and second, but not other gears? this
indicates #1 if the smoke is black. oil smoke is blue.

5. timing belts don't squeal because they're toothed. it's mot likely
to be an accessory belt or a tensioner. worst case is coolant pump
which would need immediate attention.

6. do NOT swap out the ignition module. if the engine runs, it works.
when they fail, the engine doesn't work at all.

7. you'll do yourself a LOT of favors by signing up for a basic car
mechanics evening course at your local community college. it sounds
like you want to know a lot, but you're in that dangerous [and
expensive] phase between not knowing what to do, and not knowing what
NOT to do. seriously, you could make some /very/ expensive mistakes
acting incorrectly on the above. and the best place to start on a honda
is with the factory service manual from helminc.com.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:41:54 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
wrote:
>> Recently, I purchased a '95 Civic DX with about 226k on it. When I
>> first got it, when the engine was cold it would have a roaming idle
>> between 500 and 2k RPM. I cleaned the IACV and also cleaned and closed
>> the FITV. Well, it stalled after I did that, so I opened the FITV up a
>> bit and it idles low and I have to feather the gas pedal to keep it
>> going. But, even then, if I slam on the throttle I get surging and
>> almost no throttle response.
>>
>> After it's at running temperature, it runs great. If warm, it fires up
>> and idles/drives strong. It does burn a lot of oil in first and second
>> at 4k+. And also there is a slight squealing noise when shifting
>> (timing belt loose?). I've been told that it may be the ignition
>> control module. So, I'm going to swap the one out of my CRX tomorrow
>> and see if that helps any.
>>
>> I have an '88 CRX si so I'm not new to Hondas, just these particular
>> problems.
>>
>> Thanks in advance

>1. check your coolant level, inside the radiator, not the expansion
>reservoir.

>2. check your ignition system. cracked distributor caps can be very
>problematic while the engine's cold but perform great when warm.

>3. don't mess with stuff like the fast idle control by "opening it up a
>bit". it's set at factory, and as long as the diaphragm functions, you
>don't need to adjust anything.

>4. why would it burn oil in first and second, but not other gears? this
>indicates #1 if the smoke is black. oil smoke is blue.

>5. timing belts don't squeal because they're toothed. it's mot likely
>to be an accessory belt or a tensioner. worst case is coolant pump
>which would need immediate attention.

>6. do NOT swap out the ignition module. if the engine runs, it works.
>when they fail, the engine doesn't work at all.

>7. you'll do yourself a LOT of favors by signing up for a basic car
>mechanics evening course at your local community college. it sounds
>like you want to know a lot, but you're in that dangerous [and
>expensive] phase between not knowing what to do, and not knowing what
>NOT to do. seriously, you could make some /very/ expensive mistakes
>acting incorrectly on the above. and the best place to start on a honda
>is with the factory service manual from helminc.com.

and keep in mind that just one mistake (like replacing a $90 ignition
module for no good reason) and you've squandered what a mechanic would
charge to fix it for you!

AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:41:54 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Recently, I purchased a '95 Civic DX with about 226k on it. When I
>>> first got it, when the engine was cold it would have a roaming idle
>>> between 500 and 2k RPM. I cleaned the IACV and also cleaned and closed
>>> the FITV. Well, it stalled after I did that, so I opened the FITV up a
>>> bit and it idles low and I have to feather the gas pedal to keep it
>>> going. But, even then, if I slam on the throttle I get surging and
>>> almost no throttle response.
>>>
>>> After it's at running temperature, it runs great. If warm, it fires up
>>> and idles/drives strong. It does burn a lot of oil in first and second
>>> at 4k+. And also there is a slight squealing noise when shifting
>>> (timing belt loose?). I've been told that it may be the ignition
>>> control module. So, I'm going to swap the one out of my CRX tomorrow
>>> and see if that helps any.
>>>
>>> I have an '88 CRX si so I'm not new to Hondas, just these particular
>>> problems.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>
>> 1. check your coolant level, inside the radiator, not the expansion
>> reservoir.
>
>> 2. check your ignition system. cracked distributor caps can be very
>> problematic while the engine's cold but perform great when warm.
>
>> 3. don't mess with stuff like the fast idle control by "opening it up a
>> bit". it's set at factory, and as long as the diaphragm functions, you
>> don't need to adjust anything.
>
>> 4. why would it burn oil in first and second, but not other gears? this
>> indicates #1 if the smoke is black. oil smoke is blue.
>
>> 5. timing belts don't squeal because they're toothed. it's mot likely
>> to be an accessory belt or a tensioner. worst case is coolant pump
>> which would need immediate attention.
>
>> 6. do NOT swap out the ignition module. if the engine runs, it works.
>> when they fail, the engine doesn't work at all.
>
>> 7. you'll do yourself a LOT of favors by signing up for a basic car
>> mechanics evening course at your local community college. it sounds
>> like you want to know a lot, but you're in that dangerous [and
>> expensive] phase between not knowing what to do, and not knowing what
>> NOT to do. seriously, you could make some /very/ expensive mistakes
>> acting incorrectly on the above. and the best place to start on a honda
>> is with the factory service manual from helminc.com.
>
> and keep in mind that just one mistake (like replacing a $90 ignition
> module for no good reason) and you've squandered what a

competent


> mechanic would
> charge to fix it for you!
>

Thanks for all the advice posted so far. I finally have some time off
today but I'll tear into the suggestions listed and post back with the
results of each.


Also, a couple responses for what you posted Jim Beam:

#3: It was my understanding that the fast idle "plunger" could loosen
up and that would cause roaming idle. Well, when I cleaned it out and
tightened it all the way back in (it was screwed quite a bit out from
the get-go) it would cause the car to stall almost immediately. That's
why I figured it was constricting flow and causing it to idle too low.

#4: Those are the gears that it's definitely noticeable in. I don't
know if it's because when I'm at 4k+ (that seems to be the magic
number on my pod tach) in third, the smoke dissipates before I can
really notice it.


Hadn't really thought about the courses before. I started working on
cars a few years ago and did everything on my CRX from head gaskets to
clutch replacements (by myself, man was that fun for a learner) using
Google and Helm's manual. So, I'll definitely look into it.

Okay, a couple more replies to the suggestions:

#1: Both reservoir and radiator coolant levels were fine. I even tried
pumping the lower radiator hose.

#2: The contacts in the cap were pretty worn, as was my rotor. I went
and picked those up and popped them in, they helped with the throttle
response.

#5: I inspected the timing belt by hand (crankshaft pulley bolt) and
it's worn but all teeth are intact and there is no cracking.

It still stalls when the engine is cool. So, does that means I need to
adjust the FITV? It seems like when it was more open there was a
roaming idle but when I closed it all the way, it stalled.

mkcarguy wrote:

> It still stalls when the engine is cool. So, does that means I need to
> adjust the FITV? It seems like when it was more open there was a
> roaming idle but when I closed it all the way, it stalled.

----------------

First time I changed a Timing Belt on a CR-V I got it timed one tooth
out. It started and ran, but terribly gutless until it warmed up. Like I
said, has the previous owner cranked the distributor all the way to one
end or the other to compensate for cam timing being wrong? that's how a
bozo would try to cover his mistake, rather than doing the work and
opening it up again and fixing the cam timing.

'Curly'

mkcarguy wrote:
> Okay, a couple more replies to the suggestions:
>
> #1: Both reservoir and radiator coolant levels were fine. I even tried
> pumping the lower radiator hose.
>
> #2: The contacts in the cap were pretty worn, as was my rotor. I went
> and picked those up and popped them in, they helped with the throttle
> response.
>
> #5: I inspected the timing belt by hand (crankshaft pulley bolt) and
> it's worn but all teeth are intact and there is no cracking.
>
> It still stalls when the engine is cool. So, does that means I need to
> adjust the FITV? It seems like when it was more open there was a
> roaming idle but when I closed it all the way, it stalled.

fluctuating idle most likely means there is a sensor problem or an air
leak. if a sensor, it's faulty or it's registering some kind of issue
like insufficient coolant. the coolant system /does/ need to be purged
of air properly - i believe there's a tsb out about jacking the car up
on a tilt so it helps air bleed out of the head in some instances.
consider replacing the tw sensor - they tend to degrade in older cars.

as for all the other stuff, be methodical and thorough. ensure the
whole ignition system is good - replace the plugs for instance. they're
so cheap, it's not worth /not/ doing. use oem denso or ngk. likewise
plug leads - oem, ngk, or high quality silicone/coiled core like magnecore.

next, adjust the valves so they're in the middle of spec. then, when
warm, set the idle per the book. check for computer codes. check for
loose hoses, air leaks, vacuum lines, perished diaphragms, and do /not/
**** with anything that's not made to be adjusted!!! simply check for
correct operation.

and again, invest in the honda workshop manual - it's the best tool you
can ever buy for this vehicle.