Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:39:02 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> > wrote:
>
>> Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:
>>
>>> Interesting to learn this:
>>>
>>> http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77
>>>
>>> Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
>>> The tire has held up well.
>>
>> Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
>> for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
>> the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!
>>
>> I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
>> hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
>> the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
>> the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
>> all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.
>>
>> So, I'm just gonna do it myself.
>>
>> But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
>> web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
>> the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
>> prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.
>>
>> They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
>> say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
>> moisture out of the plies.
>>
>> I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
>> do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!
>>
>>
>>
> Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
> yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
> wheels.
>
All my family cars have 2 sets of tires on OEM wheels.(summer and
winter) I swap them out when season changes, rotate them as well at
home.

wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:49:28 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> > wrote:
>
>> Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:
>>
>>> I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
>>> repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
>>> them.
>>
>> Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
>> to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!
>>
>> < begin rant >
>>
>> When I was young and stupid, I brought my 1970 clunker to Sears for
>> a $100 alignment.
>>
>> The car had 90K miles on it and I had failed inspection (in those days,
>> they lifted the front end and checked for suspension wear).
>>
>> I brought it to K-Mart, who, for something like $20 told me I needed
>> to replace the idler arm, the pitman arm, and the tie rod ends.
>>
>> I replaced all of them, and started to do the alignment but quickly
>> realized that I just didn't have the tools to MEASURE the angles
>> correctly (and to convert inches to degrees, etc.). I got as far
>> as doing the toe but gave up when it came to camber and caster.
>>
>> I had MARKED EVERYTHING though, with yellow nail polish, because
>> I wanted a before-and-after look at things (I was pretty detailed,
>> even then).
>>
>> So I take it to Sears, pay my $100, and watch they guy. He never
>> once touched the car, but at one point, I was distracted by the shop
>> asking me to pay so maybe he did the work while I wasn't looking?
>>
>> Anyway, I pay and drive home and put the car on a lift to snap
>> pictures. Guess what. Not a single eccentric was touched! Not one.
>> I could tell because I was sloppy with the nail polish and not a
>> single bolt was even MOVED!
>>
>> The *******s. They stole my money. And my time. And, I'm sure,
>> I wasn't the only one.
>>
>> I go back. I complain. They put it on the lift. Not a single thing
>> was right except for the toe (which "I" had done myself!).
>>
>> Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
>> He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
>> old! Can you believe that.
>>
>> I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
>> I just let them re-align it.
>>
>> I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
>> to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.
>>
>> It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
>> Absolutely criminal.
>>
>> I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
>> Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
>> life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.
>>
>> The're criminals.
>> I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
>> It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.
>>
>> < end rant >
> You can put just about any "chain tire shop" name in place of Sears
> and be just as accurate. There are a few good ones of every brand -
> but more bad ones.
>
> Independents and to some extent automotive dealers are significantly
> better.
>
> I've had issues with Firestomne. BF Goodrich, and in the old days
> Uniroyal tire centers all doing the rip-off - either attempting it on
> me, or doing it to my customers.
>
I found out tire jobs at dealers don't really cost more.
Same with any service at dealership where we purchase(trade in)
our cars.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:51:10 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>(PS: Where the hell is Oren & Chris?)

I'm here. Polishing bullets and deciding on another gun

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 19:51:10 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:

>I am the same. I "do" buy Craftsman tools, although, lately, Harbor
>Frieght tools work fine - but - maybe because I already have all the
>basic tools, so, what I need are things like tire changers and
>static balancers nowadays (not wrenches and screwdrivers).

Harbor Freight is the LAST place I'd buy tools. I have been dissatisfied
with almost everything from them. If I want cheaper tools, I usually buy
the "Toolshop" branded stuff from Menards. Most of their tools have been
fairly decent. Otherwise I'll pay the higher price and get Craftsman or
at least the middle of the road brands like Stanley or Black & Decker.

clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:45:00 -0500:

> I've ballanced many a tire dynamically that was in perfect static
> ballance but caused severe high speed shimmy. I've even balanced tires
> that had been "road force balanced and still shook - and gotten rid of
> the shake. I used to balance within 1/8 ounce and could get a V rated
> tire dead smooth to over 140MPH.
>
> Try that with a bubble ballancer. Particualarly on something like a
> 2555/50 rire.

I know. I know. I know. I know.
I know what you're saying even BEFORE you said it.

All I can tell you is that I bought the tools.
I then mounted only 5 tires on BBS rims with the HF mounting tool.
I balanced each one meticulously with a static balancer from HF.
And my car does NOT shake shimmy or vibrate at any speed.

What does *that* tell you?

If my car shook, shimmied, or vibrated, *then* I would start looking
at balance (among a ton of other things like suspension and tire pressure
differences and tread differences and shocks, alignment, etc.).

That's all I can tell you.

Clearly, if my tire vibrated at speed, I would take it to a shop, and
pay them $30 to test ride the car, and then they would *tell* me if
it was alignment or balance or a worn suspension, etc.

What I'm saying is that you do NOT need to ALWAYS dynamically balance.
If you mount your own tires, you get the CHOICE.

I do realize that if you have a shop do your tires (which 99.99999% of
you do), then dynamic balance is thrown in with the standard charge, so
there is no sense in NOT getting dynamically balanced.

But, in "my" case, dynamic balancing would be a waste.

Or, are you saying, that I secretly have a vibration that I don't
know about yet?

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:45:35 -0700, Tony Hwang >
wrote:

wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:39:02 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Frank wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:23:09 -0500:
>>>
>>>> Interesting to learn this:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=77
>>>>
>>>> Wondered why it cost me $30 to get a tire repaired a few years ago.
>>>> The tire has held up well.
>>>
>>> Out here, at $100/hour shop rates, it could easily cost more just
>>> for the labor, plus you have to rebalance and they often destroy
>>> the valve and they are brutal on your expensive soft rims!
>>>
>>> I'm sick and tired of the brutish monkeys prying off my BBS
>>> hubcaps with screwdrivers, damaging the soft rims, torquing
>>> the lug bolts to 100 foot pounds instead of 84, not removing
>>> the old weights when balancing, putting the same psi into
>>> all four wheels, etc. They're just horrid.
>>>
>>> So, I'm just gonna do it myself.
>>>
>>> But that takes knowledge, so, I'm glad you pointed me to that
>>> web page. It shows that you don't want *air* to get in between
>>> the plies, so that's important to put the plug in there to
>>> prevent air from sneaking in between the plies.
>>>
>>> They call them "mushroom" patches in that article and they
>>> say that the patch keeps air in and the plug keeps air and
>>> moisture out of the plies.
>>>
>>> I just want to do the job right, instead of letting the monkeys
>>> do the job wrong. This will take all the advice you know of!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
>> yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
>> wheels.
>>
>All my family cars have 2 sets of tires on OEM wheels.(summer and
>winter) I swap them out when season changes, rotate them as well at
>home.
What's that got to do with the price of chicken milk on thursdays???
We are talking about REPAIRING a tire.

On Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:56:18 -0500, Micky >
wrote:

>
>On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
> wrote:
>
>>I'm gonna patch my first automotive tire this week.
>
>I just use "strings", with rubber cement, and it works well.
>I follow the instructions.

I should add that with the strings, you stuff the folded string in the
hole, then when the probe is in the tire, you rotate it a couple
turns, and that make a "ball" of string inside the tire, so the string
doesn't come out. That's why the probe shouldn't be a comple 0, but
have an opening in the side, like a C, so that it will come loose and
you can pull it out without any of the string.
>
>I used to use "plugs'.

They worked well too.

>My probe/rasp tool finally broke, so I bought a better quality one.
>Maybe I bought a better quality of both.

Some webpage pointed to by some post here said holes up to 1/4" but my
impression is that a 3/8 or evne 1/2 screw makes a hole that is bigger
than 1/4" when something is holding the hole open, but closes down to
almost nothing when the screw is removed. ???

On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 13:47:58 -0700, Tony Hwang >
wrote:

wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 17:49:28 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Ralph Mowery wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:44:04 -0500:
>>>
>>>> I worked at Sears changing and repairing tires and a few other minor
>>>> repairs. They had plug/patches similar to them back in 1970. Used a lot of
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> Yikes! I hate Sears! I promised myself in 1981 that I'd *never* go
>>> to Sears ever again! I tell everyone *not* to go to Sears!
>>>
>>> < begin rant >
>>>
>>> When I was young and stupid, I brought my 1970 clunker to Sears for
>>> a $100 alignment.
>>>
>>> The car had 90K miles on it and I had failed inspection (in those days,
>>> they lifted the front end and checked for suspension wear).
>>>
>>> I brought it to K-Mart, who, for something like $20 told me I needed
>>> to replace the idler arm, the pitman arm, and the tie rod ends.
>>>
>>> I replaced all of them, and started to do the alignment but quickly
>>> realized that I just didn't have the tools to MEASURE the angles
>>> correctly (and to convert inches to degrees, etc.). I got as far
>>> as doing the toe but gave up when it came to camber and caster.
>>>
>>> I had MARKED EVERYTHING though, with yellow nail polish, because
>>> I wanted a before-and-after look at things (I was pretty detailed,
>>> even then).
>>>
>>> So I take it to Sears, pay my $100, and watch they guy. He never
>>> once touched the car, but at one point, I was distracted by the shop
>>> asking me to pay so maybe he did the work while I wasn't looking?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I pay and drive home and put the car on a lift to snap
>>> pictures. Guess what. Not a single eccentric was touched! Not one.
>>> I could tell because I was sloppy with the nail polish and not a
>>> single bolt was even MOVED!
>>>
>>> The *******s. They stole my money. And my time. And, I'm sure,
>>> I wasn't the only one.
>>>
>>> I go back. I complain. They put it on the lift. Not a single thing
>>> was right except for the toe (which "I" had done myself!).
>>>
>>> Turns out, they mechanic *ADMITTED* he didn't do a thing!
>>> He said his charts only went back 10 years and my car was 11 years
>>> old! Can you believe that.
>>>
>>> I should have complained to high heaven and gotten a refund.
>>> I just let them re-align it.
>>>
>>> I wasn't as crotchety when I was young, but I would have complained
>>> to the district attorney or something had I been the age I am now.
>>>
>>> It's criminal what Sears does to rip off people.
>>> Absolutely criminal.
>>>
>>> I watch all my alignments like a hawk watching a mouse now.
>>> Sears sucks. I will *never* ever go to Sears for the rest of my
>>> life, and I make sure everyone knows how bad they are.
>>>
>>> The're criminals.
>>> I'm sorry you worked there, and I do apologize for the diatribe.
>>> It's not your fault they are criminals. It's their fault.
>>>
>>> < end rant >
>> You can put just about any "chain tire shop" name in place of Sears
>> and be just as accurate. There are a few good ones of every brand -
>> but more bad ones.
>>
>> Independents and to some extent automotive dealers are significantly
>> better.
>>
>> I've had issues with Firestomne. BF Goodrich, and in the old days
>> Uniroyal tire centers all doing the rip-off - either attempting it on
>> me, or doing it to my customers.
>>
>I found out tire jobs at dealers don't really cost more.
>Same with any service at dealership where we purchase(trade in)
>our cars.
I can generally also buy the parts I require to do my own repairs
cheaper from the dealer than from the autoparts store - and almost
ALWAYS cheaper than on-line when you factor in the shipping.

clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:32:24 -0500:

> Take the tire off yourself. Take it to the shop for repair. Remount it
> yourself. Thatway you are not paying the "monkeys" to damage your
> wheels.

This I thought was a joke, but, I called Wheel Works, and guess what!
If I bring in the tire, they will patch it with the plug/patch, for free!

Yep. For free!
Woo hoo.

It doesn't matter that Tire Rack sold me the tires and that I installed
them myself.

Perfect.

1. I can remove the tire easily.
2. I bring it to Wheel Works
3. They patch it correctly, for free.

I asked them over and over again "are you sure it's free?", and they
said yes. I told them they're crazy; but I like their kind of crazy.

I'll let you know what happens.

clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:33:36 -0500:

> What's that got to do with the price of chicken milk on thursdays???
> We are talking about REPAIRING a tire.

Specifically about:
1. Removing and replacing the tire on the rim ourself, and,
2. Patching a hole in the tire, and,
3. Perhaps dealing with balance issues thereafter.

Choosing the patch seems to be *easy* now that I know there is only
one kind of patch to choose.

BTW, I called Midas (whom I hate), Goodyear, and Wheel Works.
Midas and Goodyear only patch or plug but not both.
Wheel Works does a patch/plug, and they do it for free!

No more calls for me.
That's too easy to ignore.

I will let you know what happens (I accidentally left the key in
the ignition when I needed to straighten the wheels to jack up the
car so I'm charging my battery as we speak).

Sigh.