Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'

"dsi1" > wrote in message news:4d6d70be$0$8113>
> 20 years ago I wouldn't have believed that our future was going to be
> almost totally digital.

I guess I would have.. Digital was the only intelligent course of
technology.
I used to be involved in radiocommunications, and digital coded pulse
transmission seemed to be a no brainer.

With technology, however, robustness can falter. That is not to say that
the problems wont be solved, but that there can be painful interim
situations.

For every additional component, whether integrated onto a chip or hard
wired into a board, the statistical possibility of failure increases.

We seem to be focused upon the trip. Is there a goal here somewhere??

On 3/1/2011 12:57 PM, hls wrote:
>
> "dsi1" > wrote in message news:4d6d70be$0$8113>
>> 20 years ago I wouldn't have believed that our future was going to be
>> almost totally digital.
>
> I guess I would have.. Digital was the only intelligent course of
> technology.

Well I guess it's too late to find out now. The price of computer RAM
was about $45 a MB so you'd probably have a hard time imagining regular
folks owing a computer with $200,000 worth of ram and drives which would
cost about $10,000,000 at the time.

The only reason we're a digital world is that cheap RAM, data storage,
and a method of moving info around at high speed exists. Without that,
we'd probably still be using film, listening to CDs, going to Tower
Records, and using computers with small sized OSes with limited memory.

My guess is that 20 years from now, we won't be doing fill-ups at gas
stations and changing motor oil. I could be wrong but I hope not, for
our sake.

> I used to be involved in radiocommunications, and digital coded pulse
> transmission seemed to be a no brainer.
>
> With technology, however, robustness can falter. That is not to say that
> the problems wont be solved, but that there can be painful interim
> situations.
>
> For every additional component, whether integrated onto a chip or hard
> wired into a board, the statistical possibility of failure increases.
>
> We seem to be focused upon the trip. Is there a goal here somewhere??
>

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
> Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'
>
> David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
>
> Washington - Consumer Reports offered a harsh initial review of the
> Chevrolet Volt, questioning whether General Motors Co.'s flagship vehicle
> makes economic "sense."The extended-range plug-in electric vehicle is on
> the cover of the April issue - the influential magazine's annual survey of
> vehicles - but the GM vehicle comes in for criticism.
>
> "When you are looking at purely dollars and cents, it doesn't really make
> a lot of sense. The Volt isn't particularly efficient as an electric
> vehicle and it's not particularly good as a gas vehicle either in terms of
> fuel economy," said David Champion, the senior director of Consumer
> Reports auto testing center at a meeting with reporters here. "This is
> going to be a tough sell to the average consumer."
>
> The magazine said in its testing in Connecticut during a harsh winter, its
> Volt is getting 25 to 27 miles on electric power alone.
>
> GM spokesman Greg Martin noted that it's been an extremely harsh winter -
> and as a Volt driver he said he's getting 29-33 miles on electric range.
> But he noted that in more moderate recent weather, the range jumped to 40
> miles on electric range or higher.
>
> Champion believes a hybrid, such as the Toyota Prius, may make more sense
> for some trips.
>
> "If you drive about 70 miles, a Prius will actually get you more miles per
> gallon than the Volt does," Champion said.
>
> But GM has noted that most Americans can avoid using gasoline for most
> regular commuting with the Volt, while its gasoline engine can allow the
> freedom to travel farther, if needed.
>
> The magazine has put about 2,500 miles on its Volt. It paid $48,700,
> including a $5,000 markup by a Chevy dealer.
>
> Champion noted the Volt is about twice as expensive as a Prius.
>
> He was said the five hour time to recharge the Volt was "annoying" and was
> also critical of the power of the Volt heating system.
>
> "You have seat heaters, which keep your body warm, but your feet get cold
> and your hands get cold," Champion said.
>
> Consumer Reports will release a full road test of the Volt later this year
> and will update it.
>
> Champion praised the heater on the all-electric Nissan Leaf - which
> Consumer Reports borrowed from the Japanese automaker -- but said it also
> got very short ranges in very cold weather.
>
> On one commute, his range in a Leaf was at 43 miles when he turned onto an
> eight-mile stretch of highway, but it fell from 43 to 16 miles after eight
> miles at 70 mph.
>
> "If it keeps on going down at this rate, will I get to work," Champion
> said.
>
> Champion said in an interview he thinks the Volt "will sell the quantity
> that they want to sell to the people that really want it."
>
> Despite his criticism of the Volt, Champion praised its acceleration and
> acknowledged that under certain driving cycles, consumers could mostly
> avoid using gasoline. The magazine noted the Volt is nicely equipped and
> has a "taut yet supple ride."
>
> But he said there are a lot of trade-offs.
>
> "They are going to live with the compromises the vehicle delivers,"
> Champion said. "When you look at it from a purely logical point of view,
> it doesn't make an awful lot of sense."
>
> Before Consumer Reports decides whether to recommend the Volt, it needs
> data from at least 100 subscribers who own one, and a year of reliability
> data.
>
>
>
> From The Detroit News:
> http://detnews.com/article/20110228/AUTO01/102280401/Consumer-Reports--GM's-Volt-'doesn't-really-make-a-lot-of-sense'
>

Altho the Volt dudn't make a lot of sense, it will sell if for nothing else
as a, uh, vehicle for Yupsterized environmental dick-waving....

$45K for an electric motor and a battery, and some silicon.... go
figger.....
iirc, the Volt is no lightweight, either... 3800 lbs..... holy ****....
DAT will drain a battery!!!

I wonder how the Tesla gets 200 mi per charge.... if it's true.

Part of the problem is that assholes (car mfr's and The Merkin Pubic) seem
to have deliberately forgotten that the VW beetle -- and The Bus -- did
just fine with 42 hp -- up from 35 hp.

Funny, too.... my 1970 Datsun 510 got about the same mpgs as an effing
Prius.... go figger....
That manual steering was a bitch, tho -- what a workout to park dat car!
But overall, not a lot of progress in 41 years, eh?
--
EA

On 1 mar, 22:01, "hls" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:47:07 -0500, "C. E. White"
> > > wrote:
>
> >>Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'
>
> >>David Shepardson / Detroit News Washington Bureau
>
> >>Washington - Consumer Reports offered a harsh initial review of the
> >>Chevrolet Volt, questioning whether General Motors Co.'s flagship vehicle
> >>makes economic "sense.
>
> > Since when was the Volt General Motors flagship vehicle?
>
> Their Titanic maybe?

GM hit the iceberg a long time ago and sank last year.

Whatever you call GM now or any of their products they are trying to
get back up again.

If the Volt is what is supposed to safe them they will surely have to
scale down a bit.

On 1 mar, 22:00, "hls" > wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On 3/1/2011 2:47 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> >> Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'
>
> > None of these electric vehicles with gas engines make much sense but they
> > are important because they'll lead the way to a fully electric future.
>
> Remember Julius and Ethel Rosenberg...Their future was also
> fully electric.

A man was walking outside the sing sing and heard a lot of screaming.
He went in and asked what was happening.
We are executing a prisoner in an electric chair.
And why all this screaming then?
There is no electricity so we have to use a candle.

On 03/01/2011 05:17 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 3/1/2011 11:12 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
>> On 2011-03-01, > wrote:
>>> None of these electric vehicles with gas engines make much sense but
>>> they are important because they'll lead the way to a fully electric
>>> future.
>>
>> I have no interest in a "fully electric future" and certainly no interest
>> in purchasing electric or hybrid vehicles. You can keep 'em.
>>
>
> In the scheme of things, our personal opinions don't matter much do they?

Or to quote Major Kira Nerys (Nana Visitor) from an episode of ST DS9:
"It doesn't matter what you say or what you think. All that matters is
what you do." Sincerely,

--
J. B. Wood e-mail:

"Bjorn" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Their Titanic maybe?
>
> GM hit the iceberg a long time ago and sank last year.
>
> Whatever you call GM now or any of their products they are trying to
> get back up again.
>
> If the Volt is what is supposed to safe them they will surely have to
> scale down a bit.

I think that the only thing that will give GM a profit on this line of
"vehicles" is that the Obama administration might force the post
office or other groups to purchase a bunch of them at ridiculous
prices.

This could force this ill begotten project to appear to work, again
at the sacrifice of the tax payers.

dsi1 > wrote:
>Well I guess it's too late to find out now. The price of computer RAM
>was about $45 a MB so you'd probably have a hard time imagining regular
>folks owing a computer with $200,000 worth of ram and drives which would
>cost about $10,000,000 at the time.

Yup. However, at the time, the exponential growth in computer power had
been pretty well established.

>The only reason we're a digital world is that cheap RAM, data storage,
>and a method of moving info around at high speed exists. Without that,
>we'd probably still be using film, listening to CDs, going to Tower
>Records, and using computers with small sized OSes with limited memory.

The cheap ram and long-term storage was predicted. The cheap CPU was
predicted. They all fell along the same growth curve that had been going
on for some time.

But a lot of the actual applications weren't so easy to predict, and that
is what makes the future fun.

>My guess is that 20 years from now, we won't be doing fill-ups at gas
>stations and changing motor oil. I could be wrong but I hope not, for
>our sake.

I expect to be, and I expect to be driving the same 1974 car that I am
driving today. It should be up around a million miles on the odometer by
then. But then, I'll probably still be using film and listening to CDs
as well, so I am clearly an outlier.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Your points are all valid IMHO Vic.
I commute 14 mile to work, which would cost me $1.50ish in electricity
a day and would only need gas every couple of months.
I have a Highlander to use for everything other than my commute.
The Volt makes perfect sense for me, and I am anxious for the price to
come down a bit so I can afford one.
HTH,
Ben
>
> Not when you pay $48,700 and get gas for $3.35.
> When you can buy the car for about $30k and gas is $5.00 then the
> logic changes.
> But reliability is yet to be proved too.
> We'll see.
>
> --Vic

> Since when was the Volt General Motors flagship vehicle?
It may not be their flagship, but they are certainly banking on it as
the future of the company.
That car-of-the-year award didnt hurt them any...
Ben