Driving Without A Thermostat

I need your opinions on this.

A friend told me that a thermostat in a car is not necessary for proper
engine operation and that the thermostat is mainly there to provide
heat for people in the car. He said that cooler engines run better, are
more powerful, last a lot longer, and provides more protection for
gaskets. When the thermostats on his cars go bad, he takes them out
altogether and runs without one. If needed, he even hooks a portable
electric heater in his vehicles to get heat in the winter. He loves his
engines to run very cool. When I ride with him, the temperature gauge
in his cars never even move past 'C'.

What do you think of this? Would it be alright to take the thermostat
out of my car and drive without one if mine ever goes bad? I drive a
'91 Plymouth Sundance w/ 2.5l engine.

wrote:

> I need your opinions on this.
>
> A friend told me that a thermostat in a car is not necessary for proper
> engine operation and that the thermostat is mainly there to provide
> heat for people in the car. He said that cooler engines run better, are
> more powerful, last a lot longer, and provides more protection for
> gaskets. When the thermostats on his cars go bad, he takes them out
> altogether and runs without one. If needed, he even hooks a portable
> electric heater in his vehicles to get heat in the winter. He loves his
> engines to run very cool. When I ride with him, the temperature gauge
> in his cars never even move past 'C'.
>
> What do you think of this? Would it be alright to take the thermostat
> out of my car and drive without one if mine ever goes bad? I drive a
> '91 Plymouth Sundance w/ 2.5l engine.
>

I don't think you should listen to your friend. An internal combustion
engine is most efficient within a narrow temperature range (actually,
that's not entirely true. The engine becomes more efficient the hotter
it gets; however, there are other factors that limit how hot you can let
the engine get in real world operation like detonation and the material
properties of rings, valves, etc.) and besides that, if you run a
computer-controlled car without a 'stat the computer will think that the
engine is still warming up all the time and run in open loop mode (i.e.
rich) thus wasting more fuel and causing more ring and cylinder wear as
the excess fuel washes the oil off the cylinder walls.

IMHO you should be seeing engine temps between 170-200 degrees at all
times except during warmup.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Strictly speaking... your friend is right. However, there are some
negatives involved in removing the thermostat:
1.) Engine warm-up time is greatly increased (and may never reach
proper operating temp in cold weather) causing fuel-rich operation for
a longer time period. This can have negative effects on the engine as
well as impacting gas milage.
2.) Computer controlled cars (like yours) may never go off fast-idle.

Professor
www.telstar-electronics.com



wrote:
> I need your opinions on this.
>
> A friend told me that a thermostat in a car is not necessary for
proper
> engine operation and that the thermostat is mainly there to provide
> heat for people in the car. He said that cooler engines run better,
are
> more powerful, last a lot longer, and provides more protection for
> gaskets. When the thermostats on his cars go bad, he takes them out
> altogether and runs without one. If needed, he even hooks a portable
> electric heater in his vehicles to get heat in the winter. He loves
his
> engines to run very cool. When I ride with him, the temperature gauge
> in his cars never even move past 'C'.
>
> What do you think of this? Would it be alright to take the thermostat
> out of my car and drive without one if mine ever goes bad? I drive a
> '91 Plymouth Sundance w/ 2.5l engine.

Aren't the exhaust , o2 , and catalytic systems designed to operate at
certain (hot) temperatures as well? Defintely not optimum. Older cars
probably dont care too much, but newer ones sure do. (post 1970)

Your friend must like stopping at the gas station, because without the
thermostat closing your car will get really crappy gas mileage.

wrote:

> I need your opinions on this.
>
> A friend told me that a thermostat in a car is not necessary for proper
> engine operation and that the thermostat is mainly there to provide
> heat for people in the car. He said that cooler engines run better, are
> more powerful, last a lot longer, and provides more protection for
> gaskets. When the thermostats on his cars go bad, he takes them out
> altogether and runs without one. If needed, he even hooks a portable
> electric heater in his vehicles to get heat in the winter. He loves his
> engines to run very cool. When I ride with him, the temperature gauge
> in his cars never even move past 'C'.
>
> What do you think of this? Would it be alright to take the thermostat
> out of my car and drive without one if mine ever goes bad? I drive a
> '91 Plymouth Sundance w/ 2.5l engine.
>
Efficiency of modern IC engines is higher at higher coolant temperature.
Highest efficiency is obtained with NO cooling- the so-called
adiabatic engine. R&D has not been able to make these work yet, as no
lubricants have yet been found to run at the very high temperatures in
an adiabatic engine.

In current car engines, about 1/3 of energy in fuel goes into useful
power, 1/3 goes out exhaust (as heat and pressure, NOT as unburned fuel)
and about 1/3 goes into cooling system. That heat being dissipated by
radiator comes from energy originally in fuel tank.

Your friend may have been confused with intake air temperature. Engine
develops more power with cooler intake air. But not with lower coolant
temps.

wrote:

> I need your opinions on this.
>
> A friend told me that a thermostat in a car is not necessary for proper
> engine operation and that the thermostat is mainly there to provide
> heat for people in the car. He said that cooler engines run better, are
> more powerful, last a lot longer, and provides more protection for
> gaskets. When the thermostats on his cars go bad, he takes them out
> altogether and runs without one. If needed, he even hooks a portable
> electric heater in his vehicles to get heat in the winter. He loves his
> engines to run very cool. When I ride with him, the temperature gauge
> in his cars never even move past 'C'.
>
> What do you think of this? Would it be alright to take the thermostat
> out of my car and drive without one if mine ever goes bad? I drive a
> '91 Plymouth Sundance w/ 2.5l engine.
>

You can take the hood and the truck lid off also since there not
required for normal operation. Add the jack and the spare tire.
That ought to buy you a few MPG.

Bob

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Any car that is computer controlled needs to run at a set temperature,
usually around 190 F to operate right.

For starters, it will stay in warm up mode running really rich until the
computer 'sees' a certain temperature on one of the sensors. This burns
too much gas and can contaminate the oil with gas.

Some vehicle will also overheat at higher speeds with no thermostat to
restrict some of the flow. The coolant needs to be in the rad for a
certain time to transfer heat away, too fast and it doesn't cool down.
Most race cars use a flow restrictor sleeve in place of the t-stat if
they run without it.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

wrote:
>
> I need your opinions on this.
>
> A friend told me that a thermostat in a car is not necessary for proper
> engine operation and that the thermostat is mainly there to provide
> heat for people in the car. He said that cooler engines run better, are
> more powerful, last a lot longer, and provides more protection for
> gaskets. When the thermostats on his cars go bad, he takes them out
> altogether and runs without one. If needed, he even hooks a portable
> electric heater in his vehicles to get heat in the winter. He loves his
> engines to run very cool. When I ride with him, the temperature gauge
> in his cars never even move past 'C'.
>
> What do you think of this? Would it be alright to take the thermostat
> out of my car and drive without one if mine ever goes bad? I drive a
> '91 Plymouth Sundance w/ 2.5l engine.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:44:17 -0600, Bob Urz >
wrote:

>
>
wrote:
>
>> I need your opinions on this.
>>
>> A friend told me that a thermostat in a car is not necessary for proper
>> engine operation and that the thermostat is mainly there to provide
>> heat for people in the car. He said that cooler engines run better, are
>> more powerful, last a lot longer, and provides more protection for
>> gaskets. When the thermostats on his cars go bad, he takes them out
>> altogether and runs without one. If needed, he even hooks a portable
>> electric heater in his vehicles to get heat in the winter. He loves his
>> engines to run very cool. When I ride with him, the temperature gauge
>> in his cars never even move past 'C'.
>>
>> What do you think of this? Would it be alright to take the thermostat
>> out of my car and drive without one if mine ever goes bad? I drive a
>> '91 Plymouth Sundance w/ 2.5l engine.
>>
>
>You can take the hood and the truck lid off also since there not
>required for normal operation. Add the jack and the spare tire.
>That ought to buy you a few MPG.
>

Definately
Trunk lid should go too, waste of space

May as well drop the exhaust system, reduce weight and give others
some advance audible wanring of his approach on the highway.
It works for Harley Davidsons

In addition to that, if he has no family and no likelyhood of every
having a girl friend, he could remove all the seats and mats, except
the drivers seat of course.
In addition to removing weight, he would then have space to start a
small camp fire for heating and demisting, instead of having to use an
electric heater as is friend apparently does.

| Engine
| develops more power with cooler intake air. But not with lower coolant
| temps.

Ridiculous ; why then fit any radiator ?