ethanol producers who use ethanol?

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:41:25 -0500, "*" > wrote:

>If I owned a farm, and all I had to look forward to in the future is
>growing grain to produce ethanol, I believe I, too, would sell out in a
>heartbeat.

Chances are ethanol will be made from sugar cane and
beets and sorghum more than from grain.

The most experience most places making ethanol
before was for beverages, and I was under the impression
that even bootleggers use lots of sugar.

Joe Fischer

"Joe Fischer" > wrote in message
...
> The most experience most places making ethanol
> before was for beverages, and I was under the impression
> that even bootleggers use lots of sugar.
>
> Joe Fischer


They used to say in Norway (where alcohol is expensive and sales are
strictly controlled by the government) that, statistically, every Norwegian
eats seven loaves of bread per day.

You can make alcohol from simple sugar, and from polymeric sugars
like starch. The starch doesnt have to come from corn. And, since the
average stalk of corn only produces two ears, you are correct that there
are probably better sources of raw materials.

* wrote:
> ghostwriter > wrote in article
> .com>...
> >
> > Mad Scientist Jr wrote:
> > > Who are some Ethanol or E85 producers (or farms / suppliers / etc along
> > > the chain) that use Ethanol instead of fossil fuels, to produce their
> > > products?
> >
> > I cant imagine that any ethanol producer doesnt use exclusivly ethanol
> > in any and all trucks etc. they own. The choice would be convert the
> > engine or pay for diesel at retail so that you sell the ethanol at
> > wholesale. That might not apply to semi-trucks etc given the cost of
> > converting a engine that size, I dont know.
> >
> > The problem is that the industry is not intergrated at all and so the
> > producer buys grain without any relationship to the farmer etc. It
> > might be interesting to arrange a barter of X gallons of ethanol in
> > exchange for X bushel of corn rather than have 6 people take a cut
> > prior to the ethanol plant.
> >
> > Actually what got me started in chemistry and ethanol was a local farm
> > in my home town that built a distillery just large enough to supply his
> > tractors and trucks. I was close friends with his nephew and so did a
> > interview with him about the process when I was in high school.
> >
> > The problem was that it was a family farm owned by his father (the
> > nephew's grandfather) and when a offer of $100K (this was the 80's)
> > came in for the farm, the grandfather sold it out from under his son.
> > The system was dismantled soon after that point.
> >
> > Ghostwriter
> >
> >
>
> If I owned a farm, and all I had to look forward to in the future is
> growing grain to produce ethanol, I believe I, too, would sell out in a
> heartbeat.

Actually he raised soybeans and cows mostly, he just planted enough
corn every year to ferment into fuel and thus reduced his cost by more
then he reduced his profits. He also used the CO2 leftover from the
fermentation to preserve the corn stover so that it could be used as
fodder without needing to be dryed.

He had been in the Air Force working as a radar consultant when the
Iranian Revolution happened, and he got out just as things were getting
hot. He was just a little paranoid about buying imported oil. Had a
beautiful Korean style house, it was completely circular and heated by
an central underfloor charcoal burner (he ran communication systems in
Korean after the war). And man could his wife cook, she abandoned most
true Korean dishes (he hated the spices) and cooked mostly Chinese food
since it was something they both loved, and as a result I love Chinese
food, but only the good stuff.

I will have to call his nephew and see if he is still around.

Ghostwriter

> wrote in message . ..
>
> "Joe Fischer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The most experience most places making ethanol
>> before was for beverages, and I was under the impression
>> that even bootleggers use lots of sugar.
>>
>> Joe Fischer
>
>
> They used to say in Norway (where alcohol is expensive and sales are
> strictly controlled by the government) that, statistically, every Norwegian
> eats seven loaves of bread per day.
>
> You can make alcohol from simple sugar, and from polymeric sugars
> like starch. The starch doesnt have to come from corn. And, since the
> average stalk of corn only produces two ears, you are correct that there
> are probably better sources of raw materials.
>
>
If the average stalk only produces two ears of corn and we produce a lot of
corn, then that is a heck of a lot of corn stalks for cellulosic ethanol.

"SJC" > wrote in news:uUHNg.13397$c22.5788@trnddc07:

>
> > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Joe Fischer" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> The most experience most places making ethanol
>>> before was for beverages, and I was under the impression
>>> that even bootleggers use lots of sugar.
>>>
>>> Joe Fischer
>>
>>
>> They used to say in Norway (where alcohol is expensive and sales are
>> strictly controlled by the government) that, statistically, every
>> Norwegian eats seven loaves of bread per day.
>>
>> You can make alcohol from simple sugar, and from polymeric sugars
>> like starch. The starch doesnt have to come from corn. And, since the
>> average stalk of corn only produces two ears, you are correct that
>> there are probably better sources of raw materials.
>>
>>
> If the average stalk only produces two ears of corn and we produce a
> lot of
> corn, then that is a heck of a lot of corn stalks for cellulosic
> ethanol.

You are talking 300 gallons of freaking ethanol per acre per year.

Solar Energy electrolyzed water makes 26,282 kilograms of hydrogen,
equivilent to about 26000 gallons of gasonine per acre per year. You are
not ver smart, are you? Or are you an intern at Cato Institute sponsored
by Koch Industries Fertilizers and Feeds? Are you a shill for Cargill,
Archer-Daniels-Midland?

On Wed, "SJC" > wrote:

> wrote:
>> You can make alcohol from simple sugar, and from polymeric sugars
>> like starch. The starch doesnt have to come from corn. And, since the
>> average stalk of corn only produces two ears, you are correct that there
>> are probably better sources of raw materials.
>
> If the average stalk only produces two ears of corn and we produce a lot of
>corn, then that is a heck of a lot of corn stalks for cellulosic ethanol.

I was going to question the "two ears", it has been
65 years since I was in a real corn field, and I seem to remember
5 or 6 ears per stalk.
Do the modern strains have less production?

And even if they still get 5 or 6 ears per stalk, what
in the world does a big farm do with all the stalks, leaves,
shucks and cobs, the small farmer had a silo that would
hold most of them, the rest may have been plowed under
for the benefit of the soil.

I haven't seen any pictures of thousands of silos.

Joe Fischer

Joe Fischer wrote:

> On Wed, "SJC" > wrote:
>
> > wrote:
> >> You can make alcohol from simple sugar, and from polymeric sugars
> >> like starch. The starch doesnt have to come from corn. And, since the
> >> average stalk of corn only produces two ears, you are correct that there
> >> are probably better sources of raw materials.
> >
> > If the average stalk only produces two ears of corn and we produce a lot of
> >corn, then that is a heck of a lot of corn stalks for cellulosic ethanol.
>
> I was going to question the "two ears", it has been
> 65 years since I was in a real corn field, and I seem to remember
> 5 or 6 ears per stalk.
> Do the modern strains have less production?

I suspect it's just another made up lie.

Lies is all that the USA is about these days.

Graham

"Drunk Cheney Shot His Dick!" > wrote in message
. 17.102...
> "SJC" > wrote in news:uUHNg.13397$c22.5788@trnddc07:
>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> "Joe Fischer" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> The most experience most places making ethanol
>>>> before was for beverages, and I was under the impression
>>>> that even bootleggers use lots of sugar.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Fischer
>>>
>>>
>>> They used to say in Norway (where alcohol is expensive and sales are
>>> strictly controlled by the government) that, statistically, every
>>> Norwegian eats seven loaves of bread per day.
>>>
>>> You can make alcohol from simple sugar, and from polymeric sugars
>>> like starch. The starch doesnt have to come from corn. And, since the
>>> average stalk of corn only produces two ears, you are correct that
>>> there are probably better sources of raw materials.
>>>
>>>
>> If the average stalk only produces two ears of corn and we produce a
>> lot of
>> corn, then that is a heck of a lot of corn stalks for cellulosic
>> ethanol.
>
> You are talking 300 gallons of freaking ethanol per acre per year.
>
> Solar Energy electrolyzed water makes 26,282 kilograms of hydrogen,
> equivilent to about 26000 gallons of gasonine per acre per year. You are
> not ver smart, are you? Or are you an intern at Cato Institute sponsored
> by Koch Industries Fertilizers and Feeds? Are you a shill for Cargill,
> Archer-Daniels-Midland?
>
One thing I am NOT is a jackass like you, that goes around shooting
his f**king mouth off.