Urgent! need people with knowledge with Honda's!

I have a big problem now! I hope you can give me your opinion in the next 12
hours:

My '91 Accord LX's ignition switch has been acting funny lately (hard to
turn the key to start the car, able to remove the key when the car is
running, stuff like that...). I was hoping to take advantage of my week off
(this week) to go to my favourite honest honda specialist mechanic (25-30
miles away) to fix the problem BUT, the stupid thing died this weekend, they
key won't turn, the car won't start (obviously).

So I called a few places nearby this morning, Firestone gave me the best
quote ($225) so I got my car towed there this morning and asked them to fix
the problem, the guy said no problem, should be ready by 5pm, call us or
we'll call you. At 3pm I get a call, he's telling me the technician is not
sure what the problem is and it seems long to find out, but he didn't have
anything new to say. Finally at 6pm I call them and the car is not ready. He
tells me that the technician did the following:

Apparently there is a "top part" and a "bottom part" to this thing, he said
the tech cleaned the debris from the "top part" but the "bottom part" is not
working. Car is not starting. Not a very clear description but that's all I
know. He still couldn't give me any quote or anything, he said we'll call
you tomorrow morning.

Now, what I need to know is: what the heck is that "top part" and "bottom
part", how expensive each of them are? Also I am affraid they want to charge
me a lot of labor for finding out the problem, which really sucks.

What kind of Attitude I shouild have tomorrow when they call me or when I
call them?

This whole thing sucks, i dont want to end up paying $500 for a stupid
ignition switch!

please tell me what you think!

RAT

cogita tute

> I have a big problem now! I hope you can give me your opinion in the next 12
> hours:
>

"top part" and a "bottom part" and its not the switch ?
--
Rob Fruth - Houston, Tx
http://www.rfruth.net

1981 Raleigh for errands & fun ____ __o
1997 Trek 2300 for real fun ! ____ _ \ | _)
2000 Civic hatchback (_)/ (_)

Rattus the RAT wrote:
>
> Now, what I need to know is: what the heck is that "top part" and "bottom
> part", how expensive each of them are? Also I am affraid they want to charge
> me a lot of labor for finding out the problem, which really sucks.

There is a separate ignition lock and ignition switch, perhaps that is
what he is calling top and bottom part?
>
> What kind of Attitude I shouild have tomorrow when they call me or when I
> call them?

I'd go with "I'll have my car towed from your facility and you ain't
gonna charge me a dime for not fixing my car"
>
> This whole thing sucks, i dont want to end up paying $500 for a stupid
> ignition switch!
>
> please tell me what you think!

What I think? Going to any of the franchises like Firestone is a huge
mistake. Top tier mechanics have their own shops or work at dealerships.
Mechanics who can't tie their own shoelaces work at Firestone, Sears,
Midas etc.
>
> RAT

Sorry you feel that way, unfortunately there is no distinction from a
mechanic from a franchises to a dealers. Many people I work with have worked
at dealers and many ex-firestone now work at dealers. Mechanics are gypsies,
they rome around until they find someplace that pays and treats them right.
I have seen dealers screw people (one most recently told a customer that he
should replace his power-steering pump because it MAY fail.) and I have seen
some stuff at firestone that ****es me off.
Starting your own shop is risky, expensive. and getting a slot at a
dealership can be impossible; or you still are part of a huge corporate
conglomeration that looks at the bottom line.
Steve
ASE Master certified
Firestone employee




>
> What I think? Going to any of the franchises like Firestone is a huge
> mistake. Top tier mechanics have their own shops or work at dealerships.
> Mechanics who can't tie their own shoelaces work at Firestone, Sears,
> Midas etc.
>>
>> RAT

Hi rat,
Remember, you are only indebted to Firestone for the agreed upon amount.
If for any reason they have to/or need to increase the amount, they have to
contact you and get you to agree upon it.
Now, It's been a while since I've done a ignition switch, some cars have two
parts, the keyed portion and the electrical portion, the keyed portion
allows the electrical part to turn. Now after getting the keyed portion to
turn, they have to determine if the electrical portion is doing it's job.
Lets say it is, Perhaps the starter went out (just because it wanted to)
It's difficult to say without doing it myself, for I may have a different
approach to check it all out.
The mechanic may be a lower level and taking him longer or the Service
Manager may not be letting him have the time HE Needs to get a good look at
it and solve the problem. I don't know I'm not there.


Today, a Ford truck came in and we mentioned he had one Brake light out and
no backup lights. He agreed to the cost of the bulbs, but after replacing
the bulb on the brake light and it still didn't work, farther looking was
needed. Now this is going to take time, and was not included in the quote
for bulbs. We may have to open a wire harness and look for the short or open
wire. We can't do the work until he authorizes us to, and we could also
spend 2 hours looking into something we are only getting paid 1/2 hour to
do. In this case we didn't charge him and put his truck back together. He
elected not to do farther work.

Steve
--
Stephen W. Hansen
ASE Master Certified Auto Technician



"Rattus the RAT" > wrote in
message ...
>I have a big problem now! I hope you can give me your opinion in the next
>12
> hours:
>
> My '91 Accord LX's ignition switch has been acting funny lately (hard to
> turn the key to start the car, able to remove the key when the car is
> running, stuff like that...). I was hoping to take advantage of my week
> off
> (this week) to go to my favourite honest honda specialist mechanic (25-30
> miles away) to fix the problem BUT, the stupid thing died this weekend,
> they
> key won't turn, the car won't start (obviously).
>
> So I called a few places nearby this morning, Firestone gave me the best
> quote ($225) so I got my car towed there this morning and asked them to
> fix
> the problem, the guy said no problem, should be ready by 5pm, call us or
> we'll call you. At 3pm I get a call, he's telling me the technician is not
> sure what the problem is and it seems long to find out, but he didn't have
> anything new to say. Finally at 6pm I call them and the car is not ready.
> He
> tells me that the technician did the following:
>
> Apparently there is a "top part" and a "bottom part" to this thing, he
> said
> the tech cleaned the debris from the "top part" but the "bottom part" is
> not
> working. Car is not starting. Not a very clear description but that's all
> I
> know. He still couldn't give me any quote or anything, he said we'll call
> you tomorrow morning.
>
> Now, what I need to know is: what the heck is that "top part" and "bottom
> part", how expensive each of them are? Also I am affraid they want to
> charge
> me a lot of labor for finding out the problem, which really sucks.
>
> What kind of Attitude I shouild have tomorrow when they call me or when I
> call them?
>
> This whole thing sucks, i dont want to end up paying $500 for a stupid
> ignition switch!
>
> please tell me what you think!
>
> RAT
>
>

TeGGer® wrote:
> Have you tried a NEW KEY? Sometimes it's just an extremely worn key that
> causes problems that are misdiagnosed as ignition switch problems.

Yeah, agreed. I got a pretty worn key when I picked my 94 Civic
up--takes a bit of jiggling to get it to unlock, so I've been using the
practically unused valet key for now. The owner recently found me the
second copy of the main key, that's much less worn, but I think I'll go
to the dealer and get a couple of brand-new ones made up one of these
days, as neither one works in the trunk lock by the gas/trunk releases.

Here's my similar experience (From a previous post):

This just happened to me also (1991 Accord DX, 153k miles). I noticed
that the car is fine while the key stays in the "Start" position (the
engine catches), but the engine is killed when the key returns to "On"
position, which is the norm for driving. To make a long story short,
I changed the Main Relay to no avail, but have since tracked down and
replaced the "Steering Switch" (35130-SM4-305 for my model). This
switch is essentially the ignition switch that sits on the left side
of the steering column. Replacement work is straight forward and took
about 20 minutes if you have the part in hand. Simply remove the top
and bottom covers off of the steering column (5 screws total), and
find the white pastic switch on the left (It almost looks like a
bearing housing). Replace this and your car should work like a charm
again.


I live in the Bay Area, California, so purchasing from San Leandro
Honda (slhondaparts.com) was a cinch. I ordered online and picked up
in store, therwise you'll need to pay for shipping and taxes. The
cost of the part is $50, and I got a similar quote from hparts.com,
when they were still in business.

Here's my similar experience (From a previous post):

This just happened to me also (1991 Accord DX, 153k miles). I noticed
that the car is fine while the key stays in the "Start" position (the
engine catches), but the engine is killed when the key returns to "On"
position, which is the norm for driving. To make a long story short,
I changed the Main Relay to no avail, but have since tracked down and
replaced the "Steering Switch" (35130-SM4-305 for my model). This
switch is essentially the ignition switch that sits on the left side
of the steering column. Replacement work is straight forward and took
about 20 minutes if you have the part in hand. Simply remove the top
and bottom covers off of the steering column (5 screws total), and
find the white pastic switch on the left (It almost looks like a
bearing housing). Replace this and your car should work like a charm
again.


I live in the Bay Area, California, so purchasing from San Leandro
Honda (slhondaparts.com) was a cinch. I ordered online and picked up
in store, therwise you'll need to pay for shipping and taxes. The
cost of the part is $50, and I got a similar quote from hparts.com,
when they were still in business.

"Rattus the RAT" > wrote in
message ...
>I have a big problem now! I hope you can give me your opinion in the next
>12
> hours:
>
> My '91 Accord LX's ignition switch has been acting funny lately (hard to
> turn the key to start the car, able to remove the key when the car is
> running, stuff like that...). I was hoping to take advantage of my week
> off
> (this week) to go to my favourite honest honda specialist mechanic (25-30
> miles away) to fix the problem BUT, the stupid thing died this weekend,
> they
> key won't turn, the car won't start (obviously).
>
> So I called a few places nearby this morning, Firestone gave me the best
> quote ($225) so I got my car towed there this morning and asked them to
> fix
> the problem, the guy said no problem, should be ready by 5pm, call us or
> we'll call you. At 3pm I get a call, he's telling me the technician is not
> sure what the problem is and it seems long to find out, but he didn't have
> anything new to say. Finally at 6pm I call them and the car is not ready.
> He
> tells me that the technician did the following:
>
> Apparently there is a "top part" and a "bottom part" to this thing, he
> said
> the tech cleaned the debris from the "top part" but the "bottom part" is
> not
> working. Car is not starting. Not a very clear description but that's all
> I
> know. He still couldn't give me any quote or anything, he said we'll call
> you tomorrow morning.
>
> Now, what I need to know is: what the heck is that "top part" and "bottom
> part", how expensive each of them are? Also I am affraid they want to
> charge
> me a lot of labor for finding out the problem, which really sucks.
>
> What kind of Attitude I shouild have tomorrow when they call me or when I
> call them?
>
> This whole thing sucks, i dont want to end up paying $500 for a stupid
> ignition switch!
>
> please tell me what you think!
>
> RAT
>
>
The top part would be the mechanical part, with the tumblers and the
cylinder, while the bottom part is the switch assembly that is turned when
the top part lets it. As others point out, getting the switch in and out is
not rocket science, and neither is the switch itself. The switch is widely
available with the wiring pigtail, but not really cheap. Firestone probably
won't have any source but the dealer.

The local Honda dealer should be able to quote you a price - parts and
labor - for replacing the switch. That should be about the price you would
expect from Firestone, since the labor rate will be in the ballpark and they
would need to charge the same amount for the switch. (Usually they would get
a discount that is roughly their cost for picking up a part like that.)
Troubleshooting labor isn't a factor, either, since the steps in finding out
what is wrong are part of replacing the switch... except for the part about
putting the key in the "top part" and seeing if it turns okay.

If you were doing it yourself you would have options for trying to revive
the switch, but a shop can't do that. If the resuscitated part dies, they
have to eat the labor to replace it and all the labor they put into it
originally - not a way to make money.

Mike

Rattus the RAT wrote:
> Now, what I need to know is: what the heck is that "top part" and "bottom
> part", how expensive each of them are? Also I am affraid they want to charge
> me a lot of labor for finding out the problem, which really sucks.

top part- metal lock cylinder/tumbler, where the key goes
bottom part- plastic switch where the wires go.

bottom part is bad, needs to be replaced. cant see the part being more
than $100 or so.

as usual, firestone, etc are clueless. theyre tire monkeys, not an auto
repair shop.