Used sedan recommendation?

larry moe 'n curly wrote:
> N8N wrote:
>
>>larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
>
>>A Honda feels like the automotive equivalent of a toaster, to me.
>
>
>> Naw, they're just not phallic-looking enough for drivers who need that
>>characteristic.
>>
>> I could care less,
>>
>>
>>>That slip of the word means that you do care, and we know why.
>>
>>ummm... a Porsche is just simply a better car than a Honda?
>
>
> "I could care less" means "I care." It's "I could NOT care less" that
> means "I don't care." I'm sure this wasn't a Freudian slip on your
> part or a hidden cry for Viagara.
>

whatever... just accept, or not, that some people want more from their
cars than appliance-like transportation functionality. moving along...

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

"2000OdysseyLX" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:
>
> > Save your money, the CR surveys are completely biased against domestics
> > and for imports. They are useful if you have already decided to buy an
> > import
> > and want something to use to convince yourself that your choice to do
this
> > was a good one.
> >
> > Ted
>
> I couldn't disagree more.
>
> I used to buy cars based on my visceral reaction to a car, or to reviews
> in car magazines (which only considered how a factory-fresh car
> performed under test conditions). This resulted in me getting several
> of the worst cars I've ever acquired. The worst of these was a Plymouth
> Voyager minivan, which we owned for four years and three transmissions.
>

Probably it had the electronic 4 speed, and was an early-model van, (pre
1995)
these had a lot of transmission problems, but much worse than the
transmission
problems were that not many mechanics understood how these worked and
incorrect diagnosis, even at dealerships, resulted in a huge number of
people
paying for these transmissions to be rebuilt, when they didn't need to be
rebuilt.

There's a website out there called Allpar which has a set of maintainence
procedures on it which if regularly done would probably have saved at least
1 of your
transmissions, but back in the early 90's few people understood the
problems,
and we didn't have the Internet to disseminate the information.

Even today, believe it or not, there are still transmission shops that are
using
the wrong fluid in these transmissions. Old habits die hard.

> Somewhere along the line, I decided that a LOT of cars had eye appeal,
> were fun to drive, etc., but very few of them didn't come with nasty
> baggage as far as repair and maintenance. So I've turned to CR and
> haven't been disappointed.
>
> EVERY bad car I've owned has shown up on CR's list of used car models to
> avoid. Every car I've been pleased with (I tend to favor 1-3 year old
> used models) was purchased after consulting CR's list.
>
> Although I wish this were untrue, the bad cars I've owned have all been
> "domestic" - Chrysler and Ford. The good ones have all been "imports" -
> Honda and Nissan.

I've owned both. I owned a 1978 Datsun 510 and drove that for 6 years -
I bought it for $400 and sold it for $600. within 3 months of selling it
the new owner abandonded it by the side of the road and the city towed it
off. I did a lot of work on that one but I didn't make records of it.
I also owned an 81 Datsun 210 that was bought by family members new,
and held in various members of the family until I sold it for $500 earlier
this
year to someone who wanted the transmission and engine for a project
car. The transmission in it was the 4th transmission, the engine in it was
the second engine.

And I've owned (and still own) many domestics. 68 Ford Torino, 68 For
Fairlane,
84 Olds Cierra, 84 Chevy Celebrity, 94 Chrysler T&C AWD, 95 Chrysler T&C.
And probably some more in there that I've forgotten.

I've also done work on friends vehicles of both domestic and foreign.

If you are comparing cheap domestics against expensive imports it is
no wonder you have the opinions you do. Same goes if you have not
owned your vehicles long - you say you buy them at 1-3 year old used
models, well when do you get rid of them? At 7-8 years? Never?
Until they drop? If your not owning them for another 150,000 miles,
or your selling them when book on them is still over $1,500 then
once again, your not getting a clear picture.

> I put domestic and import in quotes because I believe
> the Japanese cars I've owned have actually been manufactured in North
> America, and/or had a lot of parts made in the US. In fact, I got
> started with Nissan because my father worked for a small US machine tool
> company and Nissan was a big customer.
>
> Anyway, the reviews in CR are subjective, but their recommendations on
> used cars are based on surveys of their readers.

These are also subjective. You see, the CR surveys don't pick up people
like me who would say that maintainence problems between foreign and
domestics are the same. The CR surveys also don't care about older
cars, and I mean really old ones. My 68 Torino, which I still have, and
is still roadworthy and can easily hold it's on in freeway traffic (actually
it
can probably waste most other vehicles on the freeway) is not covered
in such surveys. And the CR surveys don't weight the results in favor of
the opinions of people who actually understand and can repair their own
vehicles, against the opinions of Sally Sue who thinks that the dashboard
idiot light for the oil is supposed to turn on when you need an oil change,
and thus never does one, waiting for that light.

> One can debate if
> there's an inherent bias there, but there's no debating that my car
> ownership satisfaction went up tenfold when I started following the
> advice of Consumer Reports.

And there's no debating that my car ownership satisfaction would have
gone down 20fold if I had made buying decisions based on what CR
said.

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> "2000OdysseyLX" > wrote in message

> > Anyway, the reviews in CR are subjective, but their recommendations on
> > used cars are based on surveys of their readers.

> These are also subjective. You see, the CR surveys don't pick up people
> like me who would say that maintainence problems between foreign and
> domestics are the same.

Actually they do. Otherwise their of model year 2004 cars woudn't
show so many foreign makes being equal or inferior to GM, Ford, and
Chrysler. These include most European brands, Nissan, and Mazda. Only
a few companies consistently fared better than average: Honda, Toyota,
Mitsubishi, and Subaru. See page 18 of the April 2005 auto issue.

> The CR surveys also don't care about older cars, and I mean really old
> ones. My 68 Torino, which I still have, and is still roadworthy and can
> easily hold it's on in freeway traffic (actually it can probably waste most
> other vehicles on the freeway) is not covered in such surveys.

With only 800,000 responses, the sample size for any 1968 model would
likely be too small to be statistically meaningful, and 1968 Japanese
cars were a sorry lot for quality and reliability even when they were
fairly new.

In article >,
says...

>- Model year 2003 or more recent
>- Roughly $25k US in price
>- Top reliability
>- Not a car that "everyone" has (eliminating Accord and Camry)
>- Good acceleration and drivability
>- Runs on regular unleaded preferred

Mazda Miata.
-----------
Alex

"Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> says...
>
>>- Model year 2003 or more recent
>>- Roughly $25k US in price
>>- Top reliability
>>- Not a car that "everyone" has (eliminating Accord and Camry)
>>- Good acceleration and drivability
>>- Runs on regular unleaded preferred
>
> Mazda Miata.
> -----------
> Alex

They make the Miata in a sedan now?

James C. Reeves > wrote:

> "Alex Rodriguez" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article
>> >,
>> says...
>>
>>>- Model year 2003 or more recent
>>>- Roughly $25k US in price
>>>- Top reliability
>>>- Not a car that "everyone" has (eliminating Accord and Camry)
>>>- Good acceleration and drivability
>>>- Runs on regular unleaded preferred
>>
>> Mazda Miata.
>> -----------
>> Alex
>
> They make the Miata in a sedan now?

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/J...sedan-done.gif

In article >, says...

>> They make the Miata in a sedan now?
>
>http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/J...7-303161-6627/
miata-sedan-done.gif

Picky aren't we? Ok. Mazda RX8. Just keep in mind it will suck down
alot of gas.
-------------
Alex

MasterBlaster > wrote:

> > wrote
> - if they have experienced any loss of pressure
> within the tyre itself. It also renders
> - obsolete the need for a spare wheel.

Nah, I'll take a full-size spare AND the run flats. Run flats have a max
range of something like 150 mi when flat. I use my car mostly for longer
trips since I usually commute by train. On a longer trip, I'd rather
spend 30 min changing a tire than 3 hours looking for a tire shop to fix
or replace my tire (and another 3 hr vegging in the waiting room of the
shop).

"But patching it takes 15 min" you say... I've had 3 flats and none of
them were due to a screw or something easily patch-able, they were from a
*cut* in the tread due to a pothole or some crap on the road. Not
patchable, at least not from the outside.

Better yet, I'll take 4 Tweels and not have to worry about air at all...
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000790025885/

-Andrew

wrote:

> Well, Ive been researching the more likely candidates for a new car
> purchase,
> and although my heart was set on the Passat (have owned two with never
> a problem), I guess this has helped me make up my mind.

> Looks like some sort of Toyota or Honda is in our future.

I like the "old" (98-05) Passat with the Torsen AWD system that drives all
4 wheels all the time. The new Passat is transverse engined and the AWD
system only drives the rears when the fronts slip. Understeer city.

Speaking anecdotally of VW reliability, my mom has a 98 Jetta GL - very
basic car, not much to break. The thing's been utterly bulletproof so far
- up to 100,000 mi. The only major work it's needed was an exhaust
replacement and changing a small seal on the manual transmission to cure a
slow leak.

As far as good sedans, have you considered Subaru. The Legacy/Big Outback
are comfortable, good-handling, fun cars, if you can get past the "earth
mother" image of Subaru drivers.

-Andrew