How does 4x4 really work

What have you heard that was good about a Subaru?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Patrick wrote:
>
> So a AWD Subaru would be better for every day driving in the snow ( city
> driving )
> but very limited off-road ? Is that correct ? i have heard good thing about
> Subaru AWD latest generation.

Some consumer rating
Subaru : 8.3/10
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/re...x?modelid=2640

Jeep :8.2/10
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Re...3&src=vip#Engi

These are user rating and not Manufacture or journalist.

The only thing is Subaru are expensive to fix while jeep is not very costy
$$$

they have a good reputation around here however, better than AUDI$$$$$$$$



"L.W. ("ßill") Hughes III" > a écrit dans le message de
news: ...
> What have you heard that was good about a Subaru?
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Patrick wrote:
>>
>> So a AWD Subaru would be better for every day driving in the snow ( city
>> driving )
>> but very limited off-road ? Is that correct ? i have heard good thing
>> about
>> Subaru AWD latest generation.

Actually I had a similar experience with my Grand Cherokee Laredo
(Selectrac).

We've had a big snowstorm last week, so main streets are just wet, but
side streets, alleys and parking lots can be snow covered.

One thing I've noticed for me anyway, is both Part Time and Full Time
4x4 do not seem to "fully engage" unless I'm rolling.

Why do I say that? On two occassions yesterday, the back wheels were
slipping (once in an alley and the other as I tried to break into
traffic from a snow covered parking lot driveway). I slipped, traffic
was bearing down, I went into reverse to pull the vehicle back. Shifted
to Drive, then put on Part Time 4x4 (light on) and tried again. Again,
rear wheels slipped. So I waited for the red light to halt incoming
traffic. :-) As I drove away I could feel it engage, in a few seconds.

Later that night I cut through an alley, started to slip, and put on
the Part Time again. Initially the rear wheels continued to slip, then
after like 30 feet, I could "feel" the 4x4 in the steering wheel, and
then it gripped the snow.

I have a friend who has a Wrangler. I've been in it when we were stuck.
Pull it into Part Time and it engages immediately.

Someone please tell me on Grand Cherokees with Selectrac (Part Time and
Full Time), why does it seem like you have to be rolling for it to
engage? I had it for a few years and it's always been that way.

Jim

That begs the question: If I'm truly stuck and bogged down, will I be
able to
"Patrick" > wrote in message
...
> Last night got a bit stuck in a big snow bank, Selectrac I6 4x4, i was
> on full time
>
> The rear right (passenger) wheels was spinning and it feel it was the
> only wheel really trying to get out, i know the 4x4 is working (Light
> on and feeling while doing u-turn ) but why i did not see the front
> wheel spinning while the gc was on Reverse , I was outside with the
> truck engage looking at the truck spinning. !!!!!
>
> I tried part time and no much luck. Got out of there with time and
> patience REVERSE,DRIVE,REV... Is AWD subaru vehicules working the same
> ?
>
> thanks
>
> Pat
>
>

I usually put the tranny in Neutral engage then reverse and then drive an
it's engage.
easier to unlock in reverse too. otherwise engage drive and within a few
meter it will engage ! Why ??i have no answer.. !! BILL ?

Seem that the fulltime is better in driving mode that when stuck too. ?

I have 4 seasons tire however.
http://www.etires.com/tireSpec.jsp?specID=2279

Pat

"Jim Y." > a écrit dans le message de news:
...
> Actually I had a similar experience with my Grand Cherokee Laredo
> (Selectrac).
>
> We've had a big snowstorm last week, so main streets are just wet, but
> side streets, alleys and parking lots can be snow covered.
>
> One thing I've noticed for me anyway, is both Part Time and Full Time 4x4
> do not seem to "fully engage" unless I'm rolling.
>
> Why do I say that? On two occassions yesterday, the back wheels were
> slipping (once in an alley and the other as I tried to break into traffic
> from a snow covered parking lot driveway). I slipped, traffic was bearing
> down, I went into reverse to pull the vehicle back. Shifted to Drive, then
> put on Part Time 4x4 (light on) and tried again. Again, rear wheels
> slipped. So I waited for the red light to halt incoming traffic. :-) As I
> drove away I could feel it engage, in a few seconds.
>
> Later that night I cut through an alley, started to slip, and put on the
> Part Time again. Initially the rear wheels continued to slip, then after
> like 30 feet, I could "feel" the 4x4 in the steering wheel, and then it
> gripped the snow.
>
> I have a friend who has a Wrangler. I've been in it when we were stuck.
> Pull it into Part Time and it engages immediately.
>
> Someone please tell me on Grand Cherokees with Selectrac (Part Time and
> Full Time), why does it seem like you have to be rolling for it to engage?
> I had it for a few years and it's always been that way.
>
> Jim
>
> That begs the question: If I'm truly stuck and bogged down, will I be able
> to
> "Patrick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Last night got a bit stuck in a big snow bank, Selectrac I6 4x4, i was on
>> full time
>>
>> The rear right (passenger) wheels was spinning and it feel it was the
>> only wheel really trying to get out, i know the 4x4 is working (Light on
>> and feeling while doing u-turn ) but why i did not see the front wheel
>> spinning while the gc was on Reverse , I was outside with the truck
>> engage looking at the truck spinning. !!!!!
>>
>> I tried part time and no much luck. Got out of there with time and
>> patience REVERSE,DRIVE,REV... Is AWD subaru vehicules working the same ?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>

It probably says in your manual that you need to be rolling for it to
engage. Remember that gear teeth have to engage and can do that easier when
the gears are moving.

My manual says I'm to be rolling a few kph.

"Jim Y." > wrote in message
m...
> Actually I had a similar experience with my Grand Cherokee Laredo
> (Selectrac).
>
> We've had a big snowstorm last week, so main streets are just wet, but
> side streets, alleys and parking lots can be snow covered.
>
> One thing I've noticed for me anyway, is both Part Time and Full Time 4x4
> do not seem to "fully engage" unless I'm rolling.
>
> Why do I say that? On two occassions yesterday, the back wheels were
> slipping (once in an alley and the other as I tried to break into traffic
> from a snow covered parking lot driveway). I slipped, traffic was bearing
> down, I went into reverse to pull the vehicle back. Shifted to Drive, then
> put on Part Time 4x4 (light on) and tried again. Again, rear wheels
> slipped. So I waited for the red light to halt incoming traffic. :-) As I
> drove away I could feel it engage, in a few seconds.
>
> Later that night I cut through an alley, started to slip, and put on the
> Part Time again. Initially the rear wheels continued to slip, then after
> like 30 feet, I could "feel" the 4x4 in the steering wheel, and then it
> gripped the snow.
>
> I have a friend who has a Wrangler. I've been in it when we were stuck.
> Pull it into Part Time and it engages immediately.
>
> Someone please tell me on Grand Cherokees with Selectrac (Part Time and
> Full Time), why does it seem like you have to be rolling for it to engage?
> I had it for a few years and it's always been that way.
>
> Jim
>
> That begs the question: If I'm truly stuck and bogged down, will I be able
> to
> "Patrick" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Last night got a bit stuck in a big snow bank, Selectrac I6 4x4, i was on
>> full time
>>
>> The rear right (passenger) wheels was spinning and it feel it was the
>> only wheel really trying to get out, i know the 4x4 is working (Light on
>> and feeling while doing u-turn ) but why i did not see the front wheel
>> spinning while the gc was on Reverse , I was outside with the truck
>> engage looking at the truck spinning. !!!!!
>>
>> I tried part time and no much luck. Got out of there with time and
>> patience REVERSE,DRIVE,REV... Is AWD subaru vehicules working the same ?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>

I hope he has a clean shop rag handy ! ! !
Tom T

That must be something in the t-case that takes vacuum or time to change
state.

With the Wranglers and old CJ's, the shift is instant. The YJ's and
early Cherokees were vacuum lock on the front wheels and act like you
describe.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Patrick wrote:
>
> I usually put the tranny in Neutral engage then reverse and then drive an
> it's engage.
> easier to unlock in reverse too. otherwise engage drive and within a few
> meter it will engage ! Why ??i have no answer.. !! BILL ?
>
> Seem that the fulltime is better in driving mode that when stuck too. ?
>
> I have 4 seasons tire however.
> http://www.etires.com/tireSpec.jsp?specID=2279
>
> Pat
>
> "Jim Y." > a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> > Actually I had a similar experience with my Grand Cherokee Laredo
> > (Selectrac).
> >
> > We've had a big snowstorm last week, so main streets are just wet, but
> > side streets, alleys and parking lots can be snow covered.
> >
> > One thing I've noticed for me anyway, is both Part Time and Full Time 4x4
> > do not seem to "fully engage" unless I'm rolling.
> >
> > Why do I say that? On two occassions yesterday, the back wheels were
> > slipping (once in an alley and the other as I tried to break into traffic
> > from a snow covered parking lot driveway). I slipped, traffic was bearing
> > down, I went into reverse to pull the vehicle back. Shifted to Drive, then
> > put on Part Time 4x4 (light on) and tried again. Again, rear wheels
> > slipped. So I waited for the red light to halt incoming traffic. :-) As I
> > drove away I could feel it engage, in a few seconds.
> >
> > Later that night I cut through an alley, started to slip, and put on the
> > Part Time again. Initially the rear wheels continued to slip, then after
> > like 30 feet, I could "feel" the 4x4 in the steering wheel, and then it
> > gripped the snow.
> >
> > I have a friend who has a Wrangler. I've been in it when we were stuck.
> > Pull it into Part Time and it engages immediately.
> >
> > Someone please tell me on Grand Cherokees with Selectrac (Part Time and
> > Full Time), why does it seem like you have to be rolling for it to engage?
> > I had it for a few years and it's always been that way.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > That begs the question: If I'm truly stuck and bogged down, will I be able
> > to
> > "Patrick" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Last night got a bit stuck in a big snow bank, Selectrac I6 4x4, i was on
> >> full time
> >>
> >> The rear right (passenger) wheels was spinning and it feel it was the
> >> only wheel really trying to get out, i know the 4x4 is working (Light on
> >> and feeling while doing u-turn ) but why i did not see the front wheel
> >> spinning while the gc was on Reverse , I was outside with the truck
> >> engage looking at the truck spinning. !!!!!
> >>
> >> I tried part time and no much luck. Got out of there with time and
> >> patience REVERSE,DRIVE,REV... Is AWD subaru vehicules working the same ?
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> Pat
> >>
> >>
> >

Not all 'full time' or AWD drives are even close to the same
technologies!

'Limited slips' come into the transfer cases and diffs, dual trannies or
drives, all kinds of things can be used.

99% of the vehicle performance is the driver....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Patrick wrote:
>
> So a AWD Subaru would be better for every day driving in the snow ( city
> driving )
> but very limited off-road ? Is that correct ? i have heard good thing about
> Subaru AWD latest generation.
>
> "Mike Romain" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> >I believe the big difference is with the full time on, any 'one' of 4
> > tires can be the main drive wheel, so when stopped and not using the
> > brakes to vary the load, only one tire can be merrily spinning away.
> >
> > If you put it into 'part time', the front and rear axles are locked so
> > when stopped on ice at least 'two' wheels are spinning merrily away.
> >
> > When this happens, you can hit the brake pedal and with some practice
> > get both rear wheels spinning and sometimes even all 4 will break loose.
> >
> > Torque goes to 'both' tires on one differential equally, so the one tire
> > spinning loose has very little torque on it so the other side sits
> > still. Hit the brakes or my owners manuals say you can use the
> > emergency brake and you apply braking torque to the spinning wheel.
> > This can get strong enough to match the traction of the stopped wheel so
> > that the wheel on the other side will break loose and spin too.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Patrick wrote:
> >>
> >> Last night got a bit stuck in a big snow bank, Selectrac I6 4x4, i was on
> >> full time
> >>
> >> The rear right (passenger) wheels was spinning and it feel it was the
> >> only
> >> wheel really trying to get out, i know the 4x4 is working (Light on and
> >> feeling while doing u-turn ) but why i did not see the front wheel
> >> spinning
> >> while the gc was on Reverse , I was outside with the truck engage looking
> >> at
> >> the truck spinning. !!!!!
> >>
> >> I tried part time and no much luck. Got out of there with time and
> >> patience
> >> REVERSE,DRIVE,REV... Is AWD subaru vehicules working the same ?
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> Pat

You can shift a Jeep into and out of 4x4 high at any legal speed. They
started 'shift on the fly' back with the CJ's....

For 4x4 low, it still shifts better when going 2-3 mph for the reason
given below.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

SteveBrady wrote:
>
> It probably says in your manual that you need to be rolling for it to
> engage. Remember that gear teeth have to engage and can do that easier when
> the gears are moving.
>
> My manual says I'm to be rolling a few kph.
>
> "Jim Y." > wrote in message
> m...
> > Actually I had a similar experience with my Grand Cherokee Laredo
> > (Selectrac).
> >
> > We've had a big snowstorm last week, so main streets are just wet, but
> > side streets, alleys and parking lots can be snow covered.
> >
> > One thing I've noticed for me anyway, is both Part Time and Full Time 4x4
> > do not seem to "fully engage" unless I'm rolling.
> >
> > Why do I say that? On two occassions yesterday, the back wheels were
> > slipping (once in an alley and the other as I tried to break into traffic
> > from a snow covered parking lot driveway). I slipped, traffic was bearing
> > down, I went into reverse to pull the vehicle back. Shifted to Drive, then
> > put on Part Time 4x4 (light on) and tried again. Again, rear wheels
> > slipped. So I waited for the red light to halt incoming traffic. :-) As I
> > drove away I could feel it engage, in a few seconds.
> >
> > Later that night I cut through an alley, started to slip, and put on the
> > Part Time again. Initially the rear wheels continued to slip, then after
> > like 30 feet, I could "feel" the 4x4 in the steering wheel, and then it
> > gripped the snow.
> >
> > I have a friend who has a Wrangler. I've been in it when we were stuck.
> > Pull it into Part Time and it engages immediately.
> >
> > Someone please tell me on Grand Cherokees with Selectrac (Part Time and
> > Full Time), why does it seem like you have to be rolling for it to engage?
> > I had it for a few years and it's always been that way.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > That begs the question: If I'm truly stuck and bogged down, will I be able
> > to
> > "Patrick" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Last night got a bit stuck in a big snow bank, Selectrac I6 4x4, i was on
> >> full time
> >>
> >> The rear right (passenger) wheels was spinning and it feel it was the
> >> only wheel really trying to get out, i know the 4x4 is working (Light on
> >> and feeling while doing u-turn ) but why i did not see the front wheel
> >> spinning while the gc was on Reverse , I was outside with the truck
> >> engage looking at the truck spinning. !!!!!
> >>
> >> I tried part time and no much luck. Got out of there with time and
> >> patience REVERSE,DRIVE,REV... Is AWD subaru vehicules working the same ?
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> Pat
> >>
> >>
> >

That's hysterical
Thanks for the laugh
TrailMarker