TDI and 2006 Diesel Regulations

I am contemplating buying a Jetta TDI, but I am unclear how the 2006 diesel
regulations might impact Jetta TDI owners. I notice on the web there is
disagreement as to whether there will be a fuel shortage and price spike at
that time if the refineries aren't ready for it. Talk that the refineries
will wait until they know new engines are good to go, while some don't
expect engine manufacturers to be able to "get it together" in time.
Meanwhile, I would guess that diesel engines in Europe already comply with
the standards embodied in the 2006 US regs?? Is the current Jetta TDI
already capable of handling the new fuel? If not, how hard will it be to get
the right fuel for the Jetta if pumps are changing over to a new one? Etc.
etc.

Thanks in advance ...

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:55:23 -0700, MB > wrote:

>I am contemplating buying a Jetta TDI, but I am unclear how the 2006 diesel
>regulations might impact Jetta TDI owners. I notice on the web there is
>disagreement as to whether there will be a fuel shortage and price spike at
>that time if the refineries aren't ready for it. Talk that the refineries
>will wait until they know new engines are good to go, while some don't
>expect engine manufacturers to be able to "get it together" in time.
>Meanwhile, I would guess that diesel engines in Europe already comply with
>the standards embodied in the 2006 US regs?? Is the current Jetta TDI
>already capable of handling the new fuel? If not, how hard will it be to get
>the right fuel for the Jetta if pumps are changing over to a new one?

There is *ZERO* chance that they would introduce a different
formulation that would not work with existing diesel engines. The
issue is that manufacturers may introduce new diesel engines that
require cleaner fuel, and won't work with existing "dirty" fuel.

All of the foot dragging and whining reminds me of when they banned
lead as an additive in gasoline back in the 70s. People made all
kinds of trumped up claims about how bad it was going to be, but in
the end it resulted in less emissions and not much else.

The only reason to wait is because you think VW will introduce all
kinds of new high performance diesels in North America as soon as the
cleaner fuel is widely available and you want one of those. I think
you should plan for that for the car after the one you are considering
now.

--
Remove preceding and trailing X from username for replies
(Sorry, but I'm SICK of spam...)

The new fuel will be essentially the same as that now available in the
rest of the world. Today's cars will have no problem with it and will burn
a little cleaner. The new engines now available in other countries will
then be available in the US. You can bet there will be a temporary spike in
prices but it will be short lives with prices settling back down very close
to what they are now. I would not be surprised if the petrol companies
create an artificial shortage as well, they are very good at those kind of
things. Their dirty tricks is one reason we don't have the fuel yet.

No new technology is required it is well known and tested in the rest of
the world.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"MB" > wrote in message
...
>I am contemplating buying a Jetta TDI, but I am unclear how the 2006 diesel
> regulations might impact Jetta TDI owners. I notice on the web there is
> disagreement as to whether there will be a fuel shortage and price spike
> at
> that time if the refineries aren't ready for it. Talk that the refineries
> will wait until they know new engines are good to go, while some don't
> expect engine manufacturers to be able to "get it together" in time.
> Meanwhile, I would guess that diesel engines in Europe already comply with
> the standards embodied in the 2006 US regs?? Is the current Jetta TDI
> already capable of handling the new fuel? If not, how hard will it be to
> get
> the right fuel for the Jetta if pumps are changing over to a new one? Etc.
> etc.
>
> Thanks in advance ...
>

MB wrote:
>
> I am contemplating buying a Jetta TDI, but I am unclear how the 2006 diesel
> regulations might impact Jetta TDI owners. I notice on the web there is
> disagreement as to whether there will be a fuel shortage and price spike at
> that time if the refineries aren't ready for it. Talk that the refineries
> will wait until they know new engines are good to go, while some don't
> expect engine manufacturers to be able to "get it together" in time.
> Meanwhile, I would guess that diesel engines in Europe already comply with
> the standards embodied in the 2006 US regs?? Is the current Jetta TDI
> already capable of handling the new fuel? If not, how hard will it be to get
> the right fuel for the Jetta if pumps are changing over to a new one? Etc.
> etc.
>
> Thanks in advance ...

The new fuel will be "cleaner" than the existing fuel and will work fine
in current VW TDI's. The current "dirty" (high sulphur) fuel sold in
the U.S. won't work in the higher tech diesels sold in Europe.

I seriously doubt that there will be a supply problem, since any supply
problem would also affect operators of 18 wheelers, railroad
locomotives, etc., and the "powers that be" won't allow that to happen.

wrote:

> MB wrote:
>
>>I am contemplating buying a Jetta TDI, but I am unclear how the 2006 diesel
>>regulations might impact Jetta TDI owners. I notice on the web there is
>>disagreement as to whether there will be a fuel shortage and price spike at
>>that time if the refineries aren't ready for it. Talk that the refineries
>>will wait until they know new engines are good to go, while some don't
>>expect engine manufacturers to be able to "get it together" in time.
>>Meanwhile, I would guess that diesel engines in Europe already comply with
>>the standards embodied in the 2006 US regs?? Is the current Jetta TDI
>>already capable of handling the new fuel? If not, how hard will it be to get
>>the right fuel for the Jetta if pumps are changing over to a new one? Etc.
>>etc.
>>
>>Thanks in advance ...
>
>
> The new fuel will be "cleaner" than the existing fuel and will work fine
> in current VW TDI's. The current "dirty" (high sulphur) fuel sold in
> the U.S. won't work in the higher tech diesels sold in Europe.
>
> I seriously doubt that there will be a supply problem, since any supply
> problem would also affect operators of 18 wheelers, railroad
> locomotives, etc., and the "powers that be" won't allow that to happen.

Actually, it will be split for many years, whith the cleaner stuff
going to consumers at a higher price(nothing new is ever LESS expensive
in this country, afterall), which the dirtier stuff is kept for trains
and heavy machinery. Note - Semis and trucking will be running the
cleaner stuff as well, which will make huge improvements in air quality
almost overnight.

"Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
...
> The new fuel will be essentially the same as that now available in the
> rest of the world. Today's cars will have no problem with it and will
> burn a little cleaner. The new engines now available in other countries
> will then be available in the US. You can bet there will be a temporary
> spike in prices but it will be short lives with prices settling back down
> very close to what they are now. I would not be surprised if the petrol
> companies create an artificial shortage as well, they are very good at
> those kind of things. Their dirty tricks is one reason we don't have the
> fuel yet.

Hopefully this means that CA and the NE states that indirectly ban diesels
through emissions regulations will eventually get this fuel and the new
engines too.

Matt B. wrote:
> "Joseph Meehan" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> The new fuel will be essentially the same as that now available in the
>>rest of the world. Today's cars will have no problem with it and will
>>burn a little cleaner. The new engines now available in other countries
>>will then be available in the US. You can bet there will be a temporary
>>spike in prices but it will be short lives with prices settling back down
>>very close to what they are now. I would not be surprised if the petrol
>>companies create an artificial shortage as well, they are very good at
>>those kind of things. Their dirty tricks is one reason we don't have the
>>fuel yet.
>
>
> Hopefully this means that CA and the NE states that indirectly ban diesels
> through emissions regulations will eventually get this fuel and the new
> engines too.

This is part of the plan, actually. Only the emissions are a factor
in diesels not being sold in CA, so once it is clean enough, expect
TDIs to be big sellers.

Hell, anything that gets close to 40mpg in real driving and isn't
a total tin can like a Metro or Echo will be a big seller. There's
a lot of pent-up demand. Just witness the insanity of the Pruis,
which averages about 40-45mpg in real driving - only a bit better
than the TDI Jetta/Bug.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
....
>
> Hell, anything that gets close to 40mpg in real driving and isn't
> a total tin can like a Metro or Echo will be a big seller. There's
> a lot of pent-up demand. Just witness the insanity of the Pruis,
> which averages about 40-45mpg in real driving - only a bit better
> than the TDI Jetta/Bug.

I get mid 40's in the city and mid 50's on the road in my NB TDI

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Joseph Meehan wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> ...
>
>>Hell, anything that gets close to 40mpg in real driving and isn't
>>a total tin can like a Metro or Echo will be a big seller. There's
>>a lot of pent-up demand. Just witness the insanity of the Pruis,
>>which averages about 40-45mpg in real driving - only a bit better
>>than the TDI Jetta/Bug.
>
>
> I get mid 40's in the city and mid 50's on the road in my NB TDI

The average is only a bit lower - maybe 2-3 mpg compared to the Prius.
No fancy batteries or compromises, which makes you wonder what they
could really do with a tiny TDI hydrid. 100mpg should be a snap
to achieve. If they really wanted to, that is.

In article . net>, Joseph Oberlander > wrote:
>
>
>Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>>Hell, anything that gets close to 40mpg in real driving and isn't
>>>a total tin can like a Metro or Echo will be a big seller. There's
>>>a lot of pent-up demand. Just witness the insanity of the Pruis,
>>>which averages about 40-45mpg in real driving - only a bit better
>>>than the TDI Jetta/Bug.
>>
>>
>> I get mid 40's in the city and mid 50's on the road in my NB TDI
>
>The average is only a bit lower - maybe 2-3 mpg compared to the Prius.
>No fancy batteries or compromises, which makes you wonder what they
>could really do with a tiny TDI hydrid. 100mpg should be a snap
>to achieve. If they really wanted to, that is.
>

I got an average of 47mpg over the 30K miles I had my Golf TDI. High of 56,
low of 42 (towing a trailer). And having driven a current model Prius, there
is simply no comparison as to which is nicer to drive or ride in.

Kevin Rhodes
Westbrook, Maine