End Of American Cars..??

"tww" > wrote in message
news:NVzqg.12049$f76.12@dukeread06...
>
> An article in the business section of today's paper stated that Corvette
> was
> the only bright spot GM has. Went on to say the Toyota Camry is the #1
> selling sedan in the U.S. with around 400,000 sold annually.
>


Toyota may be the #1, but I'm not sure how long that remains if their resale
values continue to be so poor. We just traded Toyota Highlanders this week
for my wife (she insists on Toyotas) and the value of a 2002 Highlander
($25,000 MSRP) is $9000. That is a $16,000 loss on a $25,000 vehicle in
only 4 years.

You can check Kelly Blue Book to verify. BTW, the Toyota dealers seem to
only use Kelly to set the used value, as Kelly is the lowest of Kelly, NADA,
and Edmunds, more ways to rip you off.

In article t>,
"Tom in Missouri" > wrote:

> Toyota may be the #1, but I'm not sure how long that remains if their resale
> values continue to be so poor. We just traded Toyota Highlanders this week
> for my wife (she insists on Toyotas) and the value of a 2002 Highlander
> ($25,000 MSRP) is $9000. That is a $16,000 loss on a $25,000 vehicle in
> only 4 years.
>
> You can check Kelly Blue Book to verify. BTW, the Toyota dealers seem to
> only use Kelly to set the used value, as Kelly is the lowest of Kelly, NADA,
> and Edmunds, more ways to rip you off.

OK... I decided to check the '02 Highlanders at Kelly...

Chose the lower model Sport Utility 4wd, standard options Kelly
provided, and went with 62,000 miles (typical mileage according to KBB),
Good Condition, zip code 97xxx (Oregon):

Trade in - $12,300
Private Party - $14,600
Retail - $18,150 (This value assumes the vehicle has received the
cosmetic and/or mechanical reconditioning needed to qualify it as
³Excellent². This is not a transaction value; it is representative of a
dealer¹s asking price and the starting point for negotiation.)

Seems your dealer really low-balled the figure - maybe due to slump in
SUV sales. Maybe I missed something in entering info - I was just going
by guidelines with condition, options and mileage.

("Good" condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects.
This vehicle has a clean title history, the paint, body and interior
have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical
problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires
match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need
some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles
fall into this category.)

Here's waving to ya - \||||

Owen
___

'67BB & '72BB

-- not affiliated with JLA forum in any way -- alt.autos.corvette is
original posting --
___

"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
-- Ann Hayman Zwinger

Hi Owen,

Ours was 2WD, so that drops the price some. Depending on area, the Good
Trade In price varies from about $9000 - $11,000.

My gripe was that the car was in excellent condition. No dings, no spots.
Heck, my wife gets towels for the floors as soon as we get it, and covers
the mats. There really wasn't a reason to trade, other than it was 4 years
old and had 76,000 miles on it. This is where the first items on Toyotas
that break begin to and they are out of your pocket, and that drives her
crazy. Me, I look at it as a $500 or $1000 item this year and one next
year is better than paying $10,000 - $15,000 for a new vehicle. But she is
the hysterical type. The battery died a few days before, but then it was 4
years old. To me, we spent $50 for a new battery and good to go. To her, it
was the signs of the end of the world and we had to get rid of it quick.

How I married her, I have no idea.

Anyway, I couldn't get one dealer to deal with the Kelly Excellent price.
Some wouldn't even deal with the good, having one dealer actually go to
$6000 on it. We ended up getting a decent bottom line, if you consider that
they all were crap, but it still boils down to there being a heck of a loss
of value.

Of course, I ran the 2002 Corvette convertible with the standard option list
and 62000 miles, and the new $47,975 convertible dropped to $25,000 -
$27,000 depending on area for trade value.

Even more drop, but a much lower percentage. Anyway you go, these new cars
today and dropping huge amounts for a few years of use.

I wonder if the million dollar showrooms have an impact on the car values?

I think the current problems most car manufacturers are having are based on
the public's view of value, that the new ones are not a value. They are
losing huge amounts in price as they age a few years. After a few years,
repair prices are very high, due to the complexity of the cars. Many of them
have systems that begin to fail about 4 or 5 years, and while all cars had
failures after that many years and miles, cars of the past rarely had
failures that were such a high price to fix.

My rant for the day, I guess. It just feels good to grip to someone since
it seems like I'm banging my head against the wall with the dealers.

One good thing has come out of this. When we first got married, her method
of trading cars was to go to her dealer, trade cars. Shopping around, why
would you do that? They are all dealing with the same car, how could the
price be better elsewhere? If he says bottom line is $10,000, then you pay
$10,000. It took awhile to convince her that many dealers are crooks and
that the $10,000 can become $9000 or $8000 with some negotiation. It has
taken even longer to get her to see all dealers do not deal the same price.

Again, how I married her, I have no idea.



"Barking Rats" > wrote in message
...
> In article t>,
> "Tom in Missouri" > wrote:
>
>> Toyota may be the #1, but I'm not sure how long that remains if their
>> resale
>> values continue to be so poor. We just traded Toyota Highlanders this
>> week
>> for my wife (she insists on Toyotas) and the value of a 2002 Highlander
>> ($25,000 MSRP) is $9000. That is a $16,000 loss on a $25,000 vehicle in
>> only 4 years.
>>
>> You can check Kelly Blue Book to verify. BTW, the Toyota dealers seem to
>> only use Kelly to set the used value, as Kelly is the lowest of Kelly,
>> NADA,
>> and Edmunds, more ways to rip you off.
>
> OK... I decided to check the '02 Highlanders at Kelly...
>
> Chose the lower model Sport Utility 4wd, standard options Kelly
> provided, and went with 62,000 miles (typical mileage according to KBB),
> Good Condition, zip code 97xxx (Oregon):
>
> Trade in - $12,300
> Private Party - $14,600
> Retail - $18,150 (This value assumes the vehicle has received the
> cosmetic and/or mechanical reconditioning needed to qualify it as
> ³Excellent². This is not a transaction value; it is representative of a
> dealer¹s asking price and the starting point for negotiation.)
>
> Seems your dealer really low-balled the figure - maybe due to slump in
> SUV sales. Maybe I missed something in entering info - I was just going
> by guidelines with condition, options and mileage.
>
> ("Good" condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects.
> This vehicle has a clean title history, the paint, body and interior
> have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical
> problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires
> match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need
> some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles
> fall into this category.)
>
> Here's waving to ya - \||||
>
> Owen
> ___
>
> '67BB & '72BB
>
> -- not affiliated with JLA forum in any way -- alt.autos.corvette is
> original posting --
> ___
>
> "To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
> -- Ann Hayman Zwinger

"Tom in Missouri" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Hi Owen,
>
> Ours was 2WD, so that drops the price some. Depending on area, the Good Trade
> In price varies from about $9000 - $11,000.
>
Snip
>
> How I married her, I have no idea.
>
Now just think back a few years and it will all come back to you. If you think
trading cars can be expensive try trading her in for a newer model.

--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

That must be the reason I drive old stuff. I read "The Millionaire Next
Door" a few years back and the average age car they buy is 3 years old,
excepting Doctors and Lawyers which must maintain some sort of image.
Anyway the point is WHY pay all that up front depreciation. Love my '92 six
speed.

Dad I believe was talking earlier about WWII and post; re cost to repair. I
have recently become interested in old "Bolts". "Bolts" pre 72 Chevy
trucks (points, plugs and carburators; cheap and easy to work on). I would
like a 46 (my birthdate) but will go as late as a 53. Want to restore one
to original condition.

Wade, new vette owner (gave myself a 60 year old birthday present)
'92 Red both tops, 6 speed with 55k miles
'93 S-10 298k miles
'89 Phord Van 144k miles

"Dad" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Tom in Missouri" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Hi Owen,
>>
>> Ours was 2WD, so that drops the price some. Depending on area, the Good
>> Trade In price varies from about $9000 - $11,000.
>>
> Snip
>>
>> How I married her, I have no idea.
>>
> Now just think back a few years and it will all come back to you. If you
> think trading cars can be expensive try trading her in for a newer model.
>
> --
> Dad
> 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
> 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
>

I used to average only a couple hundred dollars per car per year until I
began to add her cars in. Usually I would gain enough on any corvettes I
sold to offset any depreciation on vans and cars I drove. Her cars have
shifted that a bit. One car hit $1000 per year, the next $1800 per year,
and then this one is roughly $3800 per year.

I worked with some guys years ago that had an interesting philosophy on car
payments. They usually bought the cheapest car they could find that ran.
$100-$150. They figured if it ran a month, then that was their car payment,
and still better than most. If it ran two months, their car payment was
suddenly $50-$75 per month. If they got several months, the car payment
began getting ridiculously low.

They knew also that at that price, they were bound to have car problems.
But rather than fix it, they would sell it, often at the same $100 or so,
and buy another. Putting money in for repairs was throwing it away. In the
long run, they were averaging something like $10 a month for car payments.

I did the same philosophy to some extent with vans. I discovered you could
buy most 6 year old or so Chevy vans for $2000 average. If you drove them a
couple of years, you could still sell for roughly the same $2000. My flaw
was that I usually kept them too long, and did spend money for the repairs.


"Wade Herod" > wrote in message
...
> That must be the reason I drive old stuff. I read "The Millionaire Next
> Door" a few years back and the average age car they buy is 3 years old,
> excepting Doctors and Lawyers which must maintain some sort of image.
> Anyway the point is WHY pay all that up front depreciation. Love my '92
> six speed.
>
> Dad I believe was talking earlier about WWII and post; re cost to repair.
> I have recently become interested in old "Bolts". "Bolts" pre 72 Chevy
> trucks (points, plugs and carburators; cheap and easy to work on). I
> would like a 46 (my birthdate) but will go as late as a 53. Want to
> restore one to original condition.
>
> Wade, new vette owner (gave myself a 60 year old birthday present)
> '92 Red both tops, 6 speed with 55k miles
> '93 S-10 298k miles
> '89 Phord Van 144k miles
>

I remember why I married her. Now if only she would.

"Dad" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Tom in Missouri" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Hi Owen,
>>
>> Ours was 2WD, so that drops the price some. Depending on area, the Good
>> Trade In price varies from about $9000 - $11,000.
>>
> Snip
>>
>> How I married her, I have no idea.
>>
> Now just think back a few years and it will all come back to you. If you
> think trading cars can be expensive try trading her in for a newer model.
>
> --
> Dad
> 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
> 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
>

Tom in Missouri wrote:
> I remember why I married her. Now if only she would.
>
> "Dad" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "Tom in Missouri" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>> Hi Owen,
>>>
>>> Ours was 2WD, so that drops the price some. Depending on area, the Good
>>> Trade In price varies from about $9000 - $11,000.
>>>
>> Snip
>>> How I married her, I have no idea.
>>>
>> Now just think back a few years and it will all come back to you. If you
>> think trading cars can be expensive try trading her in for a newer model.
>>
>> --
>> Dad
>> 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
>> 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
>>
>
>
Tom, if it's any reassurance that you are not alone, things work much
the same in this household. For Mrs. PJ's car, any small hint that it
might need to be touched by a repair guy is reason for trashing it.
This also extends to car brands. If a given brand of car leaves her
high and dry on the highway or fails to start in a parking lot, she is
done with that brand of car--permanently. The only hope for the
American car industry is that 15 years ago, my Toyota pickup failed her
at the airport and she had to call AAA. So far, two GMCs have kept running.

Many women I've know, particularly Mama tend to develop emotional
attachments to inanimate objects (hmmm,maybe I'm an inanimate object).
This woman is the mother of all my kids, is still great on a date,
earned her MBA fair and square; however,......

This week her land barge turned over 32K and is ready for a set of brake
pads. I've got to 'grease' that car into the brake and tire guy with
very little fuss lest she feel that it has to be replaced, and soon.

--
PJ
'89 Hookercar '02 e-blu coupe

"PJ" > wrote in message news:bEOsg.18536$f76.3590@dukeread06...
> Tom in Missouri wrote:
>> I remember why I married her.

Snipped anything that distracts for this joke ;-))

> Many women I've know, particularly Mama tend to develop emotional attachments
> to inanimate objects (hmmm,maybe I'm an inanimate object). This woman is the
> mother of all my kids, is still great on a date, earned her MBA fair and
> square; however,......
>
> This week her land barge turned over 32K and is ready for a set of brake pads.
> I've got to 'grease' that car into the brake and tire guy with very little
> fuss lest she feel that it has to be replaced, and soon.
>
> --
> PJ
> '89 Hookercar '02 e-blu coupe

Is it possible that it's just your object that is inanimate??

--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

Dad wrote:
> "PJ" > wrote in message news:bEOsg.18536$f76.3590@dukeread06...
>> Tom in Missouri wrote:
>>> I remember why I married her.
>
> Snipped anything that distracts for this joke ;-))
>
>> Many women I've know, particularly Mama tend to develop emotional attachments
>> to inanimate objects (hmmm,maybe I'm an inanimate object). This woman is the
>> mother of all my kids, is still great on a date, earned her MBA fair and
>> square; however,......
>>
>> This week her land barge turned over 32K and is ready for a set of brake pads.
>> I've got to 'grease' that car into the brake and tire guy with very little
>> fuss lest she feel that it has to be replaced, and soon.
>>
>> --
>> PJ
>> '89 Hookercar '02 e-blu coupe
>
> Is it possible that it's just your object that is inanimate??
>
Hmmm, right now I've gotta hit the freeway and earn a buck -- but later
in the day will sound reveille and check it out.

--
PJ