no lube on auto fasteners?

my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good mechanics
lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize, and occasionally
oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel for the
torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)

in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners, except for
a few applications where antiseize has been reccomended. in fact, ive
seen a few applications where the manual has specifically said to *not*
lubricate.

i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued correctly than
it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing lug nuts and engine
mounts was just asking for seized nuts in the future.

curious,
anthony

"clean and dry" is the usual requirement.
I use a wire brush on threads, and wipe off residual grease with a rag.
Some manufacturers pre coat critial fasteners when needed with anti
seize or lock tight.
Small amount of anti seize on spark plug threads in aluminum heads is
ok.
Another area for anti seize would by oxygen sensors in the exhaust
manifold.
Standard bolts - clean and dry for accurate torque values and reliable
fastening.

Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it reduces
friction.

Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!


> wrote in message
oups.com...
> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good mechanics
> lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize, and occasionally
> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel for the
> torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>
> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners, except for
> a few applications where antiseize has been reccomended. in fact, ive
> seen a few applications where the manual has specifically said to *not*
> lubricate.
>
> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued correctly than
> it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing lug nuts and engine
> mounts was just asking for seized nuts in the future.
>
> curious,
> anthony
>

"D. Dub" > wrote in news:cKVAd.620764$%
k.555510@pd7tw2no:

> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it reduces
> friction.
>
> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good mechanics
>> lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize, and
occasionally
>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel for the
>> torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>>
>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners, except for
>> a few applications where antiseize has been reccomended. in fact, ive
>> seen a few applications where the manual has specifically said to
*not*
>> lubricate.
>>
>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued correctly than
>> it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing lug nuts and engine
>> mounts was just asking for seized nuts in the future.
>>
>> curious,
>> anthony
>>
>
>
>

anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them to come
off again. KB

--
ThunderSnake #9 Warn once, shoot twice
460 in the pkup, 460 on the stand for another pkup
and one in the shed for a fun project to yet be decided on

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> wrote:

>"D. Dub" > wrote in news:cKVAd.620764$%
>k.555510@pd7tw2no:
>
>> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it reduces
>> friction.
>>
>> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good mechanics
>>> lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize, and
>occasionally
>>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel for the
>>> torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>>>
>>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners, except for
>>> a few applications where antiseize has been reccomended. in fact, ive
>>> seen a few applications where the manual has specifically said to
>*not*
>>> lubricate.
>>>
>>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued correctly than
>>> it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing lug nuts and engine
>>> mounts was just asking for seized nuts in the future.
>>>
>>> curious,
>>> anthony
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them to come
>off again. KB

Yes, anti sieze IS a lube. I use it on my flashlight that has a
rotary on/off switch, and it has made it very easy to turn on/off now.

anti sieze is most _definitely_ a lubricant. No question about it.

Now I have no opinion one way or the other on if they should be used
on wheel lugs. I don't, and I've never seen anybody else lube wheel
lugs either, but I remain *open* to the idea.

Lg

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> wrote:

>"D. Dub" > wrote in news:cKVAd.620764$%
>k.555510@pd7tw2no:
>
>> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it reduces
>> friction.
>>
>> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good mechanics
>>> lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize, and
>occasionally
>>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel for the
>>> torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>>>
>>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners, except for
>>> a few applications where antiseize has been reccomended. in fact, ive
>>> seen a few applications where the manual has specifically said to
>*not*
>>> lubricate.
>>>
>>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued correctly than
>>> it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing lug nuts and engine
>>> mounts was just asking for seized nuts in the future.
>>>
>>> curious,
>>> anthony
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them to come
>off again. KB

In fact, I'll go a step further:

Permatex
Anti-Seize _Lubricant_

prevents
seizing
galling
corrosion
part number 133A

now, notice the word "lubricant" in the product name.

Finito

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
> > wrote:
>
> >"D. Dub" > wrote in news:cKVAd.620764$%
> >k.555510@pd7tw2no:
> >
> >> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it reduces
> >> friction.
> >>
> >> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
> >>
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good mechanics
> >>> lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize, and
> >occasionally
> >>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel for the
> >>> torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
> >>>
> >>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners, except for
> >>> a few applications where antiseize has been reccomended. in fact, ive
> >>> seen a few applications where the manual has specifically said to
> >*not*
> >>> lubricate.
> >>>
> >>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued correctly than
> >>> it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing lug nuts and engine
> >>> mounts was just asking for seized nuts in the future.
> >>>
> >>> curious,
> >>> anthony
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them to come
> >off again. KB
>
> In fact, I'll go a step further:
>
> Permatex
> Anti-Seize _Lubricant_
>
> prevents
> seizing
> galling
> corrosion
> part number 133A
>
> now, notice the word "lubricant" in the product name.
>
> Finito

Ever wonder why they call it antiseize instead of lubricant?
Antiseize is designed to keep parts that are in a non-moving
relationship from seizing to each other. It coincidentally
can function as a lubricant because it does have some of those
properties, but if you use antiseize to lubricate something
like wheel bearings you'll have an almost immediate failure
as a result because antiseize doesn't have the additives and
properties that a regular lubricant that's been designed to
lube moving parts has.

JazzMan
--
************************************************** ********
Please reply to jsavage"at"airmail.net.
Curse those darned bulk e-mailers!
************************************************** ********
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************************************************** ********

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:15:43 -0600, JazzMan >
wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Kevin Bottorff
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >"D. Dub" > wrote in news:cKVAd.620764$%
>> >k.555510@pd7tw2no:
>> >
>> >> Lubricating fasteners will give false torque readings as it reduces
>> >> friction.
>> >>
>> >> Never ever ever ever lube lugs!!!!!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >>> my mechanical training ground was in bicycles, where good mechanics
>> >>> lubricate basically every fastener. grease, antiseize, and
>> >occasionally
>> >>> oil go on everything. (the obvious advantages are correct feel for the
>> >>> torque, no galling, decreased corrosion, etc)
>> >>>
>> >>> in cars, i never find any mention of lubricating fasteners, except for
>> >>> a few applications where antiseize has been reccomended. in fact, ive
>> >>> seen a few applications where the manual has specifically said to
>> >*not*
>> >>> lubricate.
>> >>>
>> >>> i dont get it. i thought that if a fastener was torqued correctly than
>> >>> it would not vibrate loose, and that not greasing lug nuts and engine
>> >>> mounts was just asking for seized nuts in the future.
>> >>>
>> >>> curious,
>> >>> anthony
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >anti sieze is not a lube, use it on all lug nuts if you want them to come
>> >off again. KB
>>
>> In fact, I'll go a step further:
>>
>> Permatex
>> Anti-Seize _Lubricant_
>>
>> prevents
>> seizing
>> galling
>> corrosion
>> part number 133A
>>
>> now, notice the word "lubricant" in the product name.
>>
>> Finito
>
>Ever wonder why they call it antiseize instead of lubricant?

I thought I demonstrated that it is *named* as both anti-seize and
lubricant. That is what the manufacturer has chosen to designate the
product as, not I.

>Antiseize is designed to keep parts that are in a non-moving
>relationship from seizing to each other. It coincidentally
>can function as a lubricant because it does have some of those
>properties, but if you use antiseize to lubricate something
>like wheel bearings you'll have an almost immediate failure
>as a result because antiseize doesn't have the additives and
>properties that a regular lubricant that's been designed to
>lube moving parts has.
>
>JazzMan

What you say is True.
There are many different lubricants for many different jobs.
I would not suggest using motor oil in place of ATF, and vice versa

But for the purpose of our discussion concerning Wheel Lugs, it is
possible that it's use could make it too easy to either over-torque
the bolt and put too much strain on the lug, and/or allow the lug nut
to work loose too easily, especially in the case of my aluminum alloy
wheels.

Lg

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
> Now I have no opinion one way or the other on if they should be used
> on wheel lugs. I don't, and I've never seen anybody else lube wheel
> lugs either, but I remain *open* to the idea.
>
> Lg
>

I think anti-seize on lug nuts IS a good idea. But I don't because:

1) Everyone else does it dry.
2) I've been unable to find a reliable "correction" factor for lug nut
torque if you installed them "wet". I've seen charts, but never in a
factory manual. In the manuals they tell you the torque and dry or
lubed. Not either/or.
3) My truck seems to like shedding lug nuts as it is (or having the nuts
bond with the stud) so the last thing I need is making it easier for the
nuts to come off.

That said, what would the new "correct" torque be for a 100 ft/lb. lug
nut if you coated the wheel stud with anti-seize? 80? 90?
(approx 12mm fine thread wheel stud if it matters...)

Ray

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:46:33 -0600, ray > wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>> Now I have no opinion one way or the other on if they should be used
>> on wheel lugs. I don't, and I've never seen anybody else lube wheel
>> lugs either, but I remain *open* to the idea.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
>I think anti-seize on lug nuts IS a good idea. But I don't because:
>
>1) Everyone else does it dry.
>2) I've been unable to find a reliable "correction" factor for lug nut
>torque if you installed them "wet". I've seen charts, but never in a
>factory manual. In the manuals they tell you the torque and dry or
>lubed. Not either/or.
>3) My truck seems to like shedding lug nuts as it is (or having the nuts
>bond with the stud) so the last thing I need is making it easier for the
>nuts to come off.
>
>That said, what would the new "correct" torque be for a 100 ft/lb. lug
>nut if you coated the wheel stud with anti-seize? 80? 90?
>(approx 12mm fine thread wheel stud if it matters...)
>
>Ray

The dealership I go to says quote "80 pound/feet" all makes, all
models, -dry- threads.

So? So I go and disobey their instructions, I have just VOIDED my
factory warranty. It isn't worth the risk to me. Especially since my
lug nuts like to come loose on their own without any *help.*

Corrected torque for wet lugs? No idea. Except derate by maybe 33%.

I.e. if was 100 pound feet, now it is 66. But I advise against doing
this. Your Life is at stake here.

Lg