Radial Ride Rough on 71 AMC Matador

On 12/31/2013 2:46 PM, sctvguy1 wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:05:15 +0000, Kevin Bottorff wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> yep the nylon bushings can make it very harsh, why did you put them on
>> instead of stock rubber??? they are a performance and handeling upgrade.
>> KB
>
> Well, I guess from all the replies,it is the bushings. Dan is used to
> doing performance cars/upgrades, so he probably got the best bushings he
> could get, performance wise, and "upgraded" the suspension for handling
> and not ride comfort. Even though this car is not a "Mark Donohue"
> flying brick, it does handle great, it just rides like a buckboard. I am
> going to sell it and get something that rides more smoothly.
>
You will find that suspension technology has advanced over the last 42
years.

--
T0m $herm@n

On 12/31/2013 4:45 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 12/31/2013 11:48 AM, sctvguy1 wrote:
>>
>> Hell, I'm only 61! I bought a brand new Hornet in 1974, and it rode a lot
>> better than this Matador. BTW, I don't have dentures, yet!
>>
>
> I used to have a Ford Capri in the 70s that had a ride that was "a
> little" non-compliant. It felt like all four tires were off the road
> when the going got rough. It would bounce a little sideways. I dug the
> handling and tolerated the ride. At least it didn't have the numb-nuts
> steering of the American cars. These cars had a faulty trunk seal that
> would cause exhaust gases to get sucked into the interior. My eyes would
> be actually watering sometimes because it was burning a little oil. Boy
> those days were a gas - literally!

Damping rod type shocks do the opposite of what you want - they offer
little compliance over sharp bumps, but inadequate damping of body
movements due to acceleration, turning, and braking. Modern shock
designs with separate high and low speed damping circuits do the
opposite - a large reason why proper modern cars handle much better with
decent ride quality compared to older vehicles.

--
T0m $herm@n

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 18:02:09 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> sctvguy1 > wrote:
>>God help me if that is so! This thing rides like a Mack truck. I
>>remember driving a 75/76 Matador at an AMC dealer, and it rode a lot
>>smoother. I think that having the "Go" package on this car has a lot to
>>do with it. I also think that the radials are making it ride hard as a
>>cob. The steering feel is just as numb as the "full-time" power
>>steering of all the old Chrysler products. I have to keep my eye on the
>>road constantly or this thing wanders off, I can't even feel the tires
>>on the road.
>
> And this, in short, is why the Japanese car industry totally clobbered
> us.
> --scott

I believe that the Japanese and Koreans made cars more like the US
industry "used" to make: cars that were sized correctly, engines that got
good gasoline mileage and plenty of room inside. Of course, now the
Asians are starting to have the same problems that developed with Detroit
products: crappy styling, cramped interiors and too many electrical
options that go "south" too often.

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:56:04 -0600, T0m $herman wrote:

> On 12/31/2013 2:46 PM, sctvguy1 wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:05:15 +0000, Kevin Bottorff wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> yep the nylon bushings can make it very harsh, why did you put them on
>>> instead of stock rubber??? they are a performance and handeling
>>> upgrade.
>>> KB
>>
>> Well, I guess from all the replies,it is the bushings. Dan is used to
>> doing performance cars/upgrades, so he probably got the best bushings
>> he could get, performance wise, and "upgraded" the suspension for
>> handling and not ride comfort. Even though this car is not a "Mark
>> Donohue" flying brick, it does handle great, it just rides like a
>> buckboard. I am going to sell it and get something that rides more
>> smoothly.
>>
> You will find that suspension technology has advanced over the last 42
> years.

My 1940 and 1941 Chryslers rode like clouds,smooth and controlled. They
had coil/leaf suspension, sway bars at both ends, and tube-type shocks.
This Matador rides like and old pickup truck, and it is a 71 model!

On Wed, 1 Jan 2014 00:13:14 +0000 (UTC), sctvguy1
> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:56:04 -0600, T0m $herman wrote:
>
>> On 12/31/2013 2:46 PM, sctvguy1 wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:05:15 +0000, Kevin Bottorff wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> yep the nylon bushings can make it very harsh, why did you put them on
>>>> instead of stock rubber??? they are a performance and handeling
>>>> upgrade.
>>>> KB
>>>
>>> Well, I guess from all the replies,it is the bushings. Dan is used to
>>> doing performance cars/upgrades, so he probably got the best bushings
>>> he could get, performance wise, and "upgraded" the suspension for
>>> handling and not ride comfort. Even though this car is not a "Mark
>>> Donohue" flying brick, it does handle great, it just rides like a
>>> buckboard. I am going to sell it and get something that rides more
>>> smoothly.
>>>
>> You will find that suspension technology has advanced over the last 42
>> years.
>
>My 1940 and 1941 Chryslers rode like clouds,smooth and controlled. They
>had coil/leaf suspension, sway bars at both ends, and tube-type shocks.
>This Matador rides like and old pickup truck, and it is a 71 model!

Did it ride rough before all the work was done? Perhaps it's got
shocks that are way too stiff. My recollection of the 71's even with
the police suspension was that they rode OK, not as good as the
Plymouths of the day but OK nevertheless.

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 21:16:24 +0000 (UTC), sctvguy1
> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:58:06 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> sctvguy1 > wrote:
>>>He did it on a drive up rack. He is a very thorough mechanic who
>>>restores old cars and also adds performance parts to muscle cars.
>>
>> I agree that the nylon bushings are apt to be a lot of the issue, but by
>> the same token I bet they improve the steering feel as well.
>> And the tires may not be blameless either, it is probably a combination
>> of factors.
>>
>> The Matador... and other AMC cars of that era... are not exactly known
>> for gentle rides and tight handling. You are probably getting closer to
>> the original handling qualities of the vehicle.
>> --scott
>
>God help me if that is so! This thing rides like a Mack truck. I
>remember driving a 75/76 Matador at an AMC dealer, and it rode a lot
>smoother. I think that having the "Go" package on this car has a lot to
>do with it. I also think that the radials are making it ride hard as a
>cob. The steering feel is just as numb as the "full-time" power steering
>of all the old Chrysler products. I have to keep my eye on the road
>constantly or this thing wanders off, I can't even feel the tires on the
>road.


The last car I had where I started with bias tires and switched to
radials went from darting all over the road to being much steadier and
controlled as well as having a better ride. I really doubt the tires
are contributing much to the bad ride if most of the concern is that
it's just "hard" riding. In my experience, "bad tires" usually show
up as vibration and shaking.

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 22:51:12 +0000 (UTC), sctvguy1
> wrote:

>On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 12:45:14 -1000, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> On 12/31/2013 11:48 AM, sctvguy1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Hell, I'm only 61! I bought a brand new Hornet in 1974, and it rode a
>>> lot better than this Matador. BTW, I don't have dentures, yet!
>>>
>>>
>> I used to have a Ford Capri in the 70s that had a ride that was "a
>> little" non-compliant. It felt like all four tires were off the road
>> when the going got rough. It would bounce a little sideways. I dug the
>> handling and tolerated the ride. At least it didn't have the numb-nuts
>> steering of the American cars. These cars had a faulty trunk seal that
>> would cause exhaust gases to get sucked into the interior. My eyes would
>> be actually watering sometimes because it was burning a little oil. Boy
>> those days were a gas - literally!
>
>Wasn't that particular car made in Germany and imported here? It was a
>cute little car. Better than that Opel that looked like a shrunken
>Corvette!

A friend of mine bought one of those Ford Capri's brand new. He loved
the car. About 6 months after he got it he was driving along and
smelled a little smoke, then saw some coming out of the center vent,
then saw a glow back in the vent. He stopped, got out and got his kid
out and within 5 minutes the entire car was engulfed in flames. He had
waited almost 6 months for the car to come in... And of course he got
screwed on the insurance, he'd just bought a brand new car and they
paid him off for his USED car.

On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:22:48 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

<snip>
> Did it ride rough before all the work was done? Perhaps it's got shocks
> that are way too stiff. My recollection of the 71's even with the
> police suspension was that they rode OK, not as good as the Plymouths of
> the day but OK nevertheless.

It was sloppy, the shocks are standard HD, not gas or spring/shock combo,
just a heavier duty shock than the original. The springs are the
original coils both front and rear. Tonight, I made the decision to sell
this car to someone who wants an intermediate semi-muscle car. The
360/2bbl has 245HP, Auto, A/C(converted to 134a), P/S, Power front disc/
rear drum, factory dual exhaust and of course all the front end work, new
brakes, etc.

On 12/31/2013 12:51 PM, sctvguy1 wrote:
>
> Wasn't that particular car made in Germany and imported here? It was a
> cute little car. Better than that Opel that looked like a shrunken
> Corvette!
>

It was made in Cologne, Germany. It was nicer than the cars build in the
US with a complete gauge set and a beautifully designed interior. The
called it the "sexy European." Unfortunately, the beautiful interior
parts would fall off or develop cracks when exposed to light and heat. I
guess that's how they made the price competitive. After a while it would
look like hell. The wooden shifter ball was huge! I had the 2 liter 4
cylinder not the V6. The previous owner had made some modifications -
nerf bars instead of a front bumper and headers. It sounded pretty cool
going through the gears. Well, at least to my early 20's brain, it did.
The suspension was probably modified too and it was the first car that I
had with radial tires. That was a fun car.

On 12/31/2013 9:29 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> It was nicer than the cars build in the US with a complete gauge set[...]

What! You do not love a foot-wide, rectangular, horizontally oriented
speedometer that reads 120 mph when the car is going 95 mph?

--
T0m $herm@n