1991 Civic warm up time

This is the 3rd winter I have owned this 1991
Civic. The first winter I owned it I replaced
the OEM thermostat because it took way too long
to warm up, and on really cold (-12F) days, the
engine temp gauge dipped when I would run the
heater wide open. It hasn't been that cold since
so I don't know if I fixed that little problem.
In sept I adjusted the valves so I changed the
thermostat again. Again OEM. Now that winter is here,
10F today, the engine still takes to long to warm up.

This is the first Honda car I have owned. I used
to ride motorcylcles, but in realy cold wether they
never warm up! This morning I started the engine,
scrapped the windows and after I got back int he car
I had to wait 10 minutes before the inside windows
un froze/fogged. I placed a lab grqde Omega thermocouple
on the inlet to the heater coil and the heater exhaust
air temp pretty much matched the inlet temp.

My 1985 Celica produced heat much sooner. But the Celica
had a much larger engine. I felt the radiator hose and
it did not warm up until after the engine temp guage started
to climb. I wish I had a multi channel lab grade thermoter,
but I can only measure anyone point with real accuracy
I would like to monitor and record the heater coil
inlet/exhasut temps, the inlet/exhaust air temps and the
radiator inlet/exuast temps. But in the meantime it looks
like the themrostat is doing it's job and that the heater
core is fine. Any ideas on what is happening here?

Terry

wrote:
> This is the 3rd winter I have owned this 1991
> Civic. The first winter I owned it I replaced
> the OEM thermostat because it took way too long
> to warm up, and on really cold (-12F) days, the
> engine temp gauge dipped when I would run the
> heater wide open. It hasn't been that cold since
> so I don't know if I fixed that little problem.
> In sept I adjusted the valves so I changed the
> thermostat again. Again OEM. Now that winter is here,
> 10F today, the engine still takes to long to warm up.
>
> This is the first Honda car I have owned. I used
> to ride motorcylcles, but in realy cold wether they
> never warm up! This morning I started the engine,
> scrapped the windows and after I got back int he car
> I had to wait 10 minutes before the inside windows
> un froze/fogged. I placed a lab grqde Omega thermocouple
> on the inlet to the heater coil and the heater exhaust
> air temp pretty much matched the inlet temp.
>
> My 1985 Celica produced heat much sooner. But the Celica
> had a much larger engine. I felt the radiator hose and
> it did not warm up until after the engine temp guage started
> to climb. I wish I had a multi channel lab grade thermoter,
> but I can only measure anyone point with real accuracy
> I would like to monitor and record the heater coil
> inlet/exhasut temps, the inlet/exhaust air temps and the
> radiator inlet/exuast temps. But in the meantime it looks
> like the themrostat is doing it's job and that the heater
> core is fine. Any ideas on what is happening here?
>
> Terry
A quick follow up with some more info:
This afternoon whne I left work at 3:15, we were having a
heatwave. It was up to 22F. I noted the start time and checked
the heater output airstream over the next few mintues. At 5
minute I had nice warm air. At 7 minutes the tmep gauge showed
normal midrange temps. Perhaps I am just expecting more then I
should. The main problem is that even after I clean the exterior
windows, the inside will fog/ice up from my breath until the
heater is up to temp. Given that I am one the road at 6:45, any
fog will make seeing difficult and is too risky. On coming lights
render you blind.
I have debated forcing the engine to a higher cold start idle,
which ought to warm it up faster. Any downside, other then fuel
consumption?
Terry

I have the same model, same year. Yes, it has a small engine, and if
you plan to idle the car until it warms up, it will take a long time.
Just let it idle for about 30 seconds in the morning until the oil
circulates a bit, and then put the car in gear and start driving slowly
.. The engine will start to warm up within the first mile or so (no high
speed driving until the engine warms up...). Then only, open the
heater. As far as I know, this is the standard procedure if you do not
want unnecessary wear on yourt engine during cold-starts in winter. I
have been doing this in Michigan winters for the past 18 years or so,
and it is the fastest way to warm up these small fuel-sipping engines.
By the way, most likely your thermostats were o.k. to begin with.

wrote:
> This is the 3rd winter I have owned this 1991
> Civic. The first winter I owned it I replaced
> the OEM thermostat because it took way too long
> to warm up, and on really cold (-12F) days, the
> engine temp gauge dipped when I would run the
> heater wide open. It hasn't been that cold since
> so I don't know if I fixed that little problem.
> In sept I adjusted the valves so I changed the
> thermostat again. Again OEM. Now that winter is here,
> 10F today, the engine still takes to long to warm up.
>
> This is the first Honda car I have owned. I used
> to ride motorcylcles, but in realy cold wether they
> never warm up! This morning I started the engine,
> scrapped the windows and after I got back int he car
> I had to wait 10 minutes before the inside windows
> un froze/fogged. I placed a lab grqde Omega thermocouple
> on the inlet to the heater coil and the heater exhaust
> air temp pretty much matched the inlet temp.
>
> My 1985 Celica produced heat much sooner. But the Celica
> had a much larger engine. I felt the radiator hose and
> it did not warm up until after the engine temp guage started
> to climb. I wish I had a multi channel lab grade thermoter,
> but I can only measure anyone point with real accuracy
> I would like to monitor and record the heater coil
> inlet/exhasut temps, the inlet/exhaust air temps and the
> radiator inlet/exuast temps. But in the meantime it looks
> like the themrostat is doing it's job and that the heater
> core is fine. Any ideas on what is happening here?
>
> Terry

TeGGer=AE wrote:
> floridly penned in
> oups.com:
>
>
> > I have debated forcing the engine to a higher cold start idle,
>
>
> I wouldn't do that.
>
>
> > which ought to warm it up faster. Any downside, other then fuel
> > consumption?
>
>
> Don't know, but it doesn't sound like a good idea.
>
>
> Your car is reaching operating temperature at a normal rate.
>
> I have the same problem (and always have) with my Integra, of windows
that
> fog up easily until the heater begins putting out heat. The only
answer
> I've been able to find is to run the blower full-blast on recirc and
cross
> my fingers, an approach that is only marginally effective.
>
> Usually I have to either scrape off the ice by hand or pull over and
wait
> for a sliver of clear windshield to appear at the bottom.
>
> --
> TeGGeR=AE
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

My problen is I live 1000mtrs from the highspeed
highway that I have to use to get to work.
It is downright frightening to try to drive when
every headlight produces a "white out". Even when
I drive slowly in first gear it still doesn't get
warm enough to be safe. While I don't want to hurt
the car, or even to waste the gasoline, I am forced
to the conclusion that this is safer then trying to
drive blind. I have palced a 500 watt heater in the car
and I intend to see if I can shave some warmup time
by starting it 10 minutes before I start the car.
Terry

wrote:
> I have the same model, same year. Yes, it has a small engine, and if
> you plan to idle the car until it warms up, it will take a long time.
> Just let it idle for about 30 seconds in the morning until the oil
> circulates a bit, and then put the car in gear and start driving
slowly
> . The engine will start to warm up within the first mile or so (no
high
> speed driving until the engine warms up...). Then only, open the
> heater. As far as I know, this is the standard procedure if you do
not
> want unnecessary wear on yourt engine during cold-starts in winter. I
> have been doing this in Michigan winters for the past 18 years or so,
> and it is the fastest way to warm up these small fuel-sipping
engines.
> By the way, most likely your thermostats were o.k. to begin with.
>
Yea, I kind of figured the thermostats where OK, but they where
reasonably cheap, and I was hoping for a fix.
My problem is that I live about 1000yards from the highspeed highway
that I use to go to work. Driving with ice/fog on the glass is
not a safe idea. Even when I drive all the way in first gear,
keeping the engine speed down, the glass is still opaque. It is only
a real problem on cold, clear nights. With cloud cover, or if the temp
is above 25, the fog/ice is not a problem. I keep the engine speed down

to 40~45MPH in 4rth unitl the gauge shows normal temp.
I have debated for the last 2 winters if it is worse to idle until it
warms up, or to go on and hit the highway before the engine is realy
warm.
I can force the idle up to ~2000RPM and it warms up in several minutes.
I have placed a 500W heater in the car, and will turn it on about 10
minutes before I leave. That way, I can start the car, clean the
windows
(that ought to take only a minute or so) and disconnect the heater and
drive off. I cna leae the cabin heat off until the tmep gauge nudges
upward, and maybe not damage the car or endanger myself!

I think the real solution is to move to somewhere where it isn't a
deep freeze!

Terry

wrote:

> drive blind. I have palced a 500 watt heater in the car
> and I intend to see if I can shave some warmup time
> by starting it 10 minutes before I start the car.
> Terry

Have you thought about installing an electric block heater? Makes winter
starts easier on both engine and driver and will give you heat much
quicker. Block heaters are cheap, I have seen them for around $35 on the
web. Spending 22 winters at 59° north I have come to appreciate block
heaters. Oh, and I like 37° north much better than 59°.

Well my bright plan to use a 500 watt heater before
starting was foiled by an overnight temp rise from
20F to 40F.
I was so disapointed. Not.
But Christmas Eve and day ought to be a good test.
Temps are forecast to be 0 or below.
I had hoped to change the gasket, but I think it will have
to wait a few days!
Terry

maybe you should just wake up a few minutes earlier and let the car
warm up, or get a block heater?

The "problem" is that it takes about 10~15 minutes on "really"
cold (<10F) mornings. The common wisdom is that allowing
any modern engine to idle that long is a bad idea. The oil will
become loaded with unburnt combustion byproducts.
If need be, I will change the oil once a month until spring
gets here.

The issue comes down to what to risk?
The engine? Or tme and the rest fo the car?
I have ordered a block heater, but it will not arrive
until next week. And Christmas is going to have
temps of around 0F.

A friend has suggested a catolytic propane heater,
but I want any "fire" to be in the cyliners!
Terry

We visit our favorite restraunt in a town about an
hour away every Sunday afternoon. Today I had to
let her idle for about 25~30 minutes. 1/4" of ice
was difficult to fight. I had to climb in through the
rear hatch and as I am 6'1" it was interesting.
The doors wouldn't budge from the inside.
I managed to use Lysol, 99% alcohol to break
through the ice. This ice was the tuffest I have
ever fought. I tried to scrape the windshield,
but this ice thoguht it was a diamond coating.
Even with the defrost on, I used one can of lysol
getting the ice off. I had 2 gallons of isopropal
in my storage building, but the lock and door
was iced over as well. Alcohol is a lot cheaper
then Lysol, but Lysol is much cheaper then a new
door handle. I just read wher one guy broke
his door handle off trying to force it in the ice.
Snow is nasty, but at least you can fight it.
Ice is a real pain.
But at least we didn't get 16" like some places
just north-west of us!