British traffic signal lights

Harry K wrote:

> Okay, basic lesson on starting on a hill with a manual.
>
> Hold with foot brake.
> Engage gear.
> While holding brake, pivot foot over to gas
> Feed gas while easing out clutch to 'just begin to grab' point.
> More gas, more clutch and release brake.

I *know* this ! Seemingly 'Dave' has trouble believing we do it this way.


> That was one of the first lessons I taught my younger siblings back in
> the 50s.
>
> I have never driven a vehicle from econoboxes up to C60s that you
> couldn't hit both brake and gas with the right foot.

Sounds a bit dodgy to me. Not sure I'd like to do that in heavy traffic.

Graham

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Ted B. wrote:

> >> Now there are a lot of incompetent manual tranny drivers who can NOT
> >> hold a car steady on a hill using just the clutch and accelerator
> >> pedal.
> >
> > ...not as many as there are masterful manual-trans drivers who
> > *could*, but know not to.

> YO!!! As I wrote elsewhere, I know not to do it, myself. But there is a
> huge difference between not doing it and not BEING ABLE to do it. If you
> can't do it, you shouldn't be driving. IMHO That doesn't mean I think it's
> a good idea, just something that all drivers SHOULD be able to do.

....because...?

Harry K wrote:
>
> Okay, basic lesson on starting on a hill with a manual.
>
> Hold with foot brake.
> Engage gear.
> While holding brake, pivot foot over to gas
> Feed gas while easing out clutch to 'just begin to grab' point.
> More gas, more clutch and release brake.
>
> I have never driven a vehicle from econoboxes up to C60s that you
> couldn't hit both brake and gas with the right foot.

I've never driven a manual where you can do that comfortably.
The pedals are about level when they're both not depressed,
so if the brake is being held then it is an awkward reach to
try and get the throttle too. Especially in Japanese cars
that don't have much leg room.

It seems to me that there is much more room for error and
less control in this technique, than in using the handbrake
(it's pretty darn easy to pull up and push down a lever, and
it leaves your foot free for optimal throttle position).

In article >,
Pooh Bear > wrote:
>
>If you know of a way of holding the car braked on a hill whilst using the accelerator
>and clutch that doesn't involve 3 feet please let me know !

Release the clutch to the friction point while applying gas with the
heel of your foot and holding the brake with the ball of your foot (or
vice-versa).
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

Matthew Russotto wrote:

> In article >,
> Pooh Bear > wrote:
> >
> >If you know of a way of holding the car braked on a hill whilst using the accelerator
> >and clutch that doesn't involve 3 feet please let me know !
>
> Release the clutch to the friction point while applying gas with the
> heel of your foot and holding the brake with the ball of your foot (or
> vice-versa).

Sounds horribly dangerous. One slip and you're in the back of the car in front.

Graham

In article >,
Pooh Bear > wrote:
>Matthew Russotto wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Pooh Bear > wrote:
>> >
>> >If you know of a way of holding the car braked on a hill whilst using the accelerator
>> >and clutch that doesn't involve 3 feet please let me know !
>>
>> Release the clutch to the friction point while applying gas with the
>> heel of your foot and holding the brake with the ball of your foot (or
>> vice-versa).
>
>Sounds horribly dangerous. One slip and you're in the back of the car in front.

If you slip, the car stalls, most likely. Horribly dangerous? Maybe,
if you're an actuary.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

Pooh Bear > wrote in
:

> "Ted B." wrote:
>>
>> You're kidding, right? One of the first things any manual tranny
>> driver -should- learn is how to hold a car steady on an incline using
>> JUST the clutch and accelerator.
>
> Sure. But you're not meant to do that for minutes one end. The clutch
> will start burning.
>
You aren't holding the the car with the clutch the whole time the light
is red. Just for the seconds that it takes to transition from stoped to
moving. Seconds at most.

<SNIP>

> You are *NOT* meant to hold a car with the clutch on a hill
> indefinitely ! You'll trash the clutch. It's also plain clumsy.
>
> Incidentally - stopping with the gear still engaged and clutch
> depressed also results in unnecessary clutch release bearing wear.
>
> Graham
>
Yes, it does result in unnecessary wear on the clutch. That's why you
should be in neutral with your foot off the clutch. Our argument seems be
over whether to use the parking brake or the service brake. The last two
manual transmission cars I owned had Left Foot Parking brakes with a hand
release. Not really easy for use at a stop light. One of my old cars, I
think it was an 80 Citation, had the brake release near the hood release.
I realise that this may be a difference between the US and UK. My point
is that the "parking brake" should only be used for holding the vehicle
when parked.

It can get even crazier with some of the buses I drive. They have wheel
chair lifts and are equiped with an "ADA Interlock". Which means that you
cannot shift (automatic) into drive unless you have released the parking
brake.They also go into "charge protect" mode when the parking brake is
applied and it is in park. This reves the engine to keep up with the
electrical draw (from the wheel chair lift).

Doug

"N8N" > wrote in
oups.com:
>
> If you own a Studebaker or Subaru there's no problem (owners of
> either should know what I'm talking about)
>
> nate
>
>

I've got a Legacy and an Outback. Unfortunately they are both automatics so
my wife can drive them. I did test drive a WRX manual, that was a lot of
fun. I loved the hill holder clutch.

Doug

but know not to.
>
> > YO!!! As I wrote elsewhere, I know not to do it, myself. But there is
a
> > huge difference between not doing it and not BEING ABLE to do it. If
you
> > can't do it, you shouldn't be driving. IMHO That doesn't mean I think
it's
> > a good idea, just something that all drivers SHOULD be able to do.
>
> ...because...?

because it's as essential to driving as steering and braking. (duh) -Dave

Old Wolf wrote:
> Harry K wrote:
> >
> > Okay, basic lesson on starting on a hill with a manual.
> >
> > Hold with foot brake.
> > Engage gear.
> > While holding brake, pivot foot over to gas
> > Feed gas while easing out clutch to 'just begin to grab' point.
> > More gas, more clutch and release brake.
> >
> > I have never driven a vehicle from econoboxes up to C60s that you
> > couldn't hit both brake and gas with the right foot.
>
> I've never driven a manual where you can do that comfortably.
> The pedals are about level when they're both not depressed,
> so if the brake is being held then it is an awkward reach to
> try and get the throttle too. Especially in Japanese cars
> that don't have much leg room.
>
> It seems to me that there is much more room for error and
> less control in this technique, than in using the handbrake
> (it's pretty darn easy to pull up and push down a lever, and
> it leaves your foot free for optimal throttle position).

Its really just what you are comfortable with. Both work. Yes, in
some vehicles it is rather awkward but you soon learn the trick.

Harry K