1988 honda accord LX starting problem and loss of power

Hi everyone. This is my first time on a user group, so please bear
with me.

I love my 1988 accord LX, but have two problems with it lately. The
symptoms a

1. on a cold day (say <40 deg F), it will start great, run for about 15
seconds, then die.
It will then almost start, doing the same thing, and get progressively
worse each time I try, until it just does not fire at all. If I keep
trying, after 5 or 10 minutes, I can sually get it to start. It does
not _always_ give me this starting trouble on cold mornings, only
sometimes (hence my trouble diagnosing the problem).

I have already tried lots of dry gas, and new plugs. I also found, on
an internet site, the suggestion to replace the distributor ignitor,
which I did. I thought for a while that the new ignitor had fixed it,
but now the problem is back.

2. In what I perceive to be a separate problem (but it might not be),
the car will run great, but after an hour or more of running at say >40
mi/hr, the car will suddenly start to buck and lose power. It usually
seems like it is about to die totally, but keeps sputtering along. I
usually just keep things calm, and try to keep the revs up, and the
problem goes away, in something like 3 to 10 minutes.

I had a similar problem a few years ago (especially on cold, rainy
conditions), and I found on an internet site the suggestion to check
the vacuum diverter that sends warm air up to the carb from the exhaust
manifold. I checked that, and it was not the diaphram, but the vacuum
line leading into it that was bad. That fixed it. Now, a few years
later, the symptoms are similar (but moist weather does not seem to be
related). I replaced the two fuel filters a few years ago, plugs and
air fileter recently, ignition wires a few years ago (gen honda).

The car is in great shape. Burns no oil, 213 k miles, 30-35 mpg. I
love it. But if I can't fix it soon, my wife will force me to give it
up. Please help!

Thanks.



Does anyone know:
Are these problems related?
Any ideas on what each might be?

> wrote
> 2. In what I perceive to be a separate problem (but it
might not be),
> the car will run great, but after an hour or more of
running at say >40
> mi/hr, the car will suddenly start to buck and lose power.
It usually
> seems like it is about to die totally, but keeps
sputtering along. I
> usually just keep things calm, and try to keep the revs
up, and the
> problem goes away, in something like 3 to 10 minutes.

Until some of the pros see your message, some things to
consider:

How old is the ignition coil?

How old is the battery?

I wouldn't expect genuine Honda ignition wires to go bad
within a few years, but still: Have you checked their
resistance lately? Should be under 15k ohms each. Looked at
them with the car running in the dark?

Carburetor ever been cleaned?

See also http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html#startrun
for more ideas about your Honda's starting/running problem.

wrote:
> Hi everyone. This is my first time on a user group, so please bear
> with me.
>
> I love my 1988 accord LX, but have two problems with it lately. The
> symptoms a
>
> 1. on a cold day (say <40 deg F), it will start great, run for about 15
> seconds, then die.
> It will then almost start, doing the same thing, and get progressively
> worse each time I try, until it just does not fire at all. If I keep
> trying, after 5 or 10 minutes, I can sually get it to start. It does
> not _always_ give me this starting trouble on cold mornings, only
> sometimes (hence my trouble diagnosing the problem).
>
> I have already tried lots of dry gas, and new plugs. I also found, on
> an internet site, the suggestion to replace the distributor ignitor,
> which I did. I thought for a while that the new ignitor had fixed it,
> but now the problem is back.
>
> 2. In what I perceive to be a separate problem (but it might not be),
> the car will run great, but after an hour or more of running at say >40
> mi/hr, the car will suddenly start to buck and lose power. It usually
> seems like it is about to die totally, but keeps sputtering along. I
> usually just keep things calm, and try to keep the revs up, and the
> problem goes away, in something like 3 to 10 minutes.
>
> I had a similar problem a few years ago (especially on cold, rainy
> conditions), and I found on an internet site the suggestion to check
> the vacuum diverter that sends warm air up to the carb from the exhaust
> manifold. I checked that, and it was not the diaphram, but the vacuum
> line leading into it that was bad. That fixed it. Now, a few years
> later, the symptoms are similar (but moist weather does not seem to be
> related). I replaced the two fuel filters a few years ago, plugs and
> air fileter recently, ignition wires a few years ago (gen honda).
>
> The car is in great shape. Burns no oil, 213 k miles, 30-35 mpg. I
> love it. But if I can't fix it soon, my wife will force me to give it
> up. Please help!
>

It would be impossible to say for sure, but it could have something to
do with fuel delivery. I am not excluding spark or air, though, since
we don't know anything yet.

Perhaps power to the pump disappears periodically, the line is clogged,
fuel pressure of not right or the pump is not working right.
Next time it happens, see if smacking the plastic panel near your left
knee helps. The main relay (switches power to the fuel pump) is under
that panel and is notorious for making bad contact.
Is the problem worse with an empty tank? I ask because the fuel pump is
cooled by being immersed in gas (I think that is the case with Hondas
also). Sometimes older pumps start misbehaving when they aren't getting
proper cooling.

Look at www.tegger.com and check out the no start symptoms described to
see which matches your condition best. Then report back with your
findings.

Remco

Elle wrote:
> Carburetor ever been cleaned?

Good point - Forgot that an 88 is a carbed car and may not have the
components I described.
OP, Follow Elle's advice.

Thanks for the tips. I'll wait until it won't start in the morning and
then get my wife to come out and crank it for me while I check things
out. I looked at the www.tegger.com web page. It looks very good and
is a great reminder for me. Thanks for the site. I knew all of that,
but have forgotten it. Why? Because I have a 2-year old, so it's hard
to get my wife away from taking care of him to come out and crank the
engine for me. On my last car that I worked on a lot (a 1971 Sabb 99),
I could hot-wire the starter so I could crank it myself while under the
hood; with this car, I have not worked on it enough to have figured out
how to do that.

By the way, how does the pcv valve come out of this car? It looks to
me like it is in a u-shaped hose just in front of and below the bracket
that holds the air cleaner to the valve cover. It looks like if I take
the whole air cleaner housing off I'll have good access to it--but I
can't really see how it is attached. It looks like it sticks into the
block or intake manifold or something, with a hose attached to the
other end. I have not changed that in at least five years, and I am
sure that I should put a new one in. Again, thanks a lot for helping
me out.

> wrote
> By the way, how does the pcv valve come out of this car?
It looks to
> me like it is in a u-shaped hose just in front of and
below the bracket
> that holds the air cleaner to the valve cover.

It's best to have the new one in your hand while you're
looking for the old one.

I don't think it's the U-shaped hose at which you're
looking. See the drawing of part #18 at

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...mws/prddisplay.
jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1988&cat cgry3=4DR+
LX&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=BREATHER+PIPE-OIL+FILTER

Also, www.autozone.com has a free repair guide for the 1988
Accord. Follow the pointers at the site. There should be a
description of the PCV system there, possibly with photos or
drawings.

Way to chase down those possible vacuum leaks.

I don't see a grommet attaching to the PCV valve in the
drawing, but if you find one, replace it, too. They can leak
with age, as you may know.

> It looks like if I take
> the whole air cleaner housing off I'll have good access to
it--

Not sure if there's any interference to remove to get to the
valve.

> but I
> can't really see how it is attached. It looks like it
sticks into the
> block or intake manifold or something, with a hose
attached to the
> other end.

On most (many?) cars, the PCV valve vents gases from the
crankcase (via a breather chamber, which tends to be located
about mid-engine height; lower than the PCV valve; higher
than the oil pan) to the intake manifold. It does on my 91
Civic and I think most of the other Hondas I've looked at in
drawings. So look for pipes connected thusly.

> I have not changed that in at least five years, and I am
> sure that I should put a new one in. Again, thanks a lot
for helping
> me out.
>

wrote:
> related). I replaced the two fuel filters a few years ago, plugs and
> air fileter recently, ignition wires a few years ago (gen honda).

how about the distributor cap and rotor? OEM, of course. and id check
out the condition of the insides- oil leaks, dust, "red dust", etc...

Again, thanks for the tips! And thanks for directing me to the
majestichonda site. Someone else (actually another honda dealer)
turned me on to it already, but had I not known about it, your
direction there would have done it.

>t's best to have the new one in your hand while you're
>looking for the old one.
>

Another generally good tip! I have had the new pcv in my garage for
several years now, so I know what this one looks like.

>I don't think it's the U-shaped hose at which you're
>looking. See the drawing of part #18 at
>In the figure there, I see the pcv, and I

I mis-spoke. I meant that it looked to me like the pcv might be
located _under_ , i.e., one end sticking into, the u-shaped hose.
According to the exploded view on the very useful majestic site, it
does look like the pcv sticks into a u-shaped hose (#8), so I will feel
better about proceding! My official honda shop manual showed a generic
view of the pcv and its hoses--which does not look like mine, and it
threw me off.

Thanks for the tip about the autozone site. I did not know that one,
and it is great!
I checked it out, and it is very helpful. In fact, their photos (fig 2
and fig 3) at
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d800cede1.jsp

show exactly the location and configuration of my pcv. Great!
Fig. 3 shows the u-shaped hose--after the air cleaner bracket has been
removed! (one can't see it too well with the bracket on.).
In my car then, I will have to take off the air cleaner housing (or at
least the bracket that goes from the air cleaner to the valve cover),
the latter of which is simple.

Thanks for the tip about the grommet. I did not think of that, but it
makes a lot of sense to me.

I think the suggestions here have been very good. Thank you all.

Dear SoCalMike--

Thanks a lot for your tip. It's easy to forget the obvious things, so
it's nice to be gently reminded! Upon your prompting, I checked my
parts receipts, and I see that I replaced them when I replaced the TEC
vacuum diaphram about 1 1/2 years ago. Of course, they could still be
bad. I probably have spare old ones around, so I could put them on and
check things out (if only this problem would stop being so
intermittent!).
My main problem in all of this is patience. I lack it. I don't feel
like working on the car now, but I need it working. I used to work on
my car(s) a lot, but haven't so much in the past 10 years (ever since I
started buying recent model Japanese cars which don't seem to require
as much repair work!) The encouragement from all of you is very
helpful.
Thanks.

Dear Remco--

Your tips about the fuel pump are very interesting. My wife seemed to
think the loss of power and bucking problem at highway speeds was
correlated with the tank being less than half full. (Unfortunately, I
probably told her that although she might have a point, I could not
think of why the gas level would matter!) Even though my car has a
carb, would all of your thoughts about the fuel pump still apply? The
carb need gas too!

Thanks for taking the time to give me your help.