Dumb question about NASCAR

I'm not into NASCAR, but this question was triggered by a radio talk
show I heard part of the other day. The discussion was about NASCAR not
allowing "foreign" comapnies to race in NASCAR - i.e, sticking with
Ford, GM, Chrysler. My question is that with Chrysler now German-owned,
what kind of rules allow that and exclude others? Is it a
"grandfathering" thing? Just curious if anyone here knows the answer.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney wrote:

> I'm not into NASCAR, but this question was triggered by a radio talk
> show I heard part of the other day. The discussion was about NASCAR not
> allowing "foreign" comapnies to race in NASCAR - i.e, sticking with
> Ford, GM, Chrysler. My question is that with Chrysler now German-owned,
> what kind of rules allow that and exclude others? Is it a
> "grandfathering" thing? Just curious if anyone here knows the answer.
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

Toyota will have an entry this year or next, can't remember which.
Based on the Camry, I think.

"Kevin" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>> I'm not into NASCAR, but this question was triggered by a radio talk show
>> I heard part of the other day. The discussion was about NASCAR not
>> allowing "foreign" comapnies to race in NASCAR - i.e, sticking with Ford,
>> GM, Chrysler. My question is that with Chrysler now German-owned, what
>> kind of rules allow that and exclude others? Is it a "grandfathering"
>> thing? Just curious if anyone here knows the answer.
>>
>> Bill Putney
>> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>> address with the letter 'x')
>
> Toyota will have an entry this year or next, can't remember which. Based
> on the Camry, I think.

Toyota_ 2007 Busch and Nextel

I think the France family or their successors can pull any rules they
want out of their ass, as they always have, and the peckerwoods will go
along.

That's correct - The source of the rules has been identified. I'm assuming
we're talking strictly Nextel and/or Busch series here. The rule in question
is this:
Back in the 60's, there was a horsepower war of sorts, and the expense of
engines was creeping up, leading to inequities between teams and
manufacturers. They decided to stop it. As a result, they outlawed the 427
overhead cam Ford. Ever since, overhead cam engines have been disallowed.
The displacement limit, I guess everybody knows, is now 5.8 liters.

Now - think: Who among foreign manufacters has a 700 hp pushrod engine?
Rolls Royce? They're just not interested. Anybody else?

Now, if a suitable engine was available, NASCAR would still have to approve
a whole foreign car piece by piece. That's where the peckerwood thing comes
in. They could welcome it, or they just pester it to death with inconsistent
rule applications. In fact, they've always harassed individual teams
running American cars, so no foreigners are required for that. A second
consideration is the type of cars that you are allowed to run. Full size
cars used to be required, but now the cars are just fabricated from tubing
and sheets, so that's not really a problem. At least it hasn't been
recently. They just make the cars bigger and smaller as they see fit. So
given the engine, politics could allow a Maxima or Avalon or 929 in Nextel
cup. Or, they can keep anything out simply by not providing templates for
it.

The toyota truck has been approved by NASCAR and is racing as far as I know,
so they do see the advantages of having more manufacturers. Nothing bad can
come to NASCAR from having more brands there, and they know that. So my
suspicion is GM and Ford would not like it, but NASCAR would like it,
because it broadens their appeal and opens up some new markets.

"Bret Ludwig" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I think the France family or their successors can pull any rules they
> want out of their ass, as they always have, and the peckerwoods will go
> along.
>

Joe wrote:

> That's correct - The source of the rules has been identified. I'm assuming
> we're talking strictly Nextel and/or Busch series here. The rule in question
> is this:
> Back in the 60's, there was a horsepower war of sorts, and the expense of
> engines was creeping up, leading to inequities between teams and
> manufacturers. They decided to stop it. As a result, they outlawed the 427
> overhead cam Ford.

That's only part of the story. The real reason that the 427 Cammer (and
eventually all big-blocks) were disallowed is because NASCAR was a
two-manufacturer series from 1965 until they banned the big-blocks. GM
never managed to field any big-block that could compete with the Ford
427 and the Chrysler 426. The NASCAR series overlords realized that this
was costing a whole lot of audience- the most popular (sales wise)
manufacturer was a constant field filler and also-ran in their series.
When the smallblock limit was imposed, the rules were carefully tailored
to favor the small-block Chevy, and its remained so ever since. Oh,
yeah, the current Ford uses a whiff of the 351 engine architecture, and
the current Dodge uses a whiff of the 340 (nothing much more than the
bore-center spacing!) but the engines are all essentially limited to
what can be done with the small Chevy architecture. Dodge isn't even
allowed to run anywhere near the bore size that the block will support,
simply because the Chevy block cannot begin to support it and it was
allowing a big reliability advantage at high horsepower because of the
shorter stroke and more manageable piston speeds.

> Now - think: Who among foreign manufacters has a 700 hp pushrod engine?
> Rolls Royce? They're just not interested. Anybody else?

Chrysler, but its a V10 :-)

>
> Now, if a suitable engine was available, NASCAR would still have to approve
> a whole foreign car piece by piece.

Already done. The Toyota "Camry" will be competing in NASCAR in 2007 (I
put it in quotes because there's not a stock part on any NASCAR
'branded' vehicle- they're all tube chassis with custom panels,
non-production engines, and Tremec or Jericho transmissions, and
aftermarket rear-ends based loosely on the Ford 9" design.) The Toyota
"Tundra" has been competing in NASCAR CTS for the past 2 seasons (and
ran very well toward the end of last year, too). Of course Toyota had to
develop an iron-block pusrhod v8 to compete, but what's so bad about that?

Every major racing series today is a "spec" series where you have to
follow a set of rules. Nothing that actually roams the street competes
at the level of IRL, Champ Car, F1, or NASCAR. To compete, any
manufacturer is going to have to put something together that's a pretty
far cry from production engines that they already have. IRL, Champ, and
the others have gone ultra-high-tech. NASCAR has gone retro (no
computers, no EFI). So what? Rules is rules. And its proven quite a bit
easier for NASCAR to enforce its anti-cheating policies than it has for
Champ, IRL, and the others where illegal algorithms can easily be buried
in the computer code. The end result is that most series have given up
and allowed things like traction control. And the proof is in the
ratings- NASCAR wins and its not simply the promotion of the races. With
drivers still in the loop more than in the other series, the racing
remains a bit more unpredictable and interesting than the
"follow-the-leader" show that F1 has turned into, for example. Of all
the major series, only IRL puts on races that are as driver-centric as
NASCAR does.