I want to save the planet/fight oil dependence, but I want a safe car too...

Around 1/8/2005 6:35 PM, Magnulus wrote:

> "Garth Almgren" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>Automatic speed traps with cameras, like they have in Europe, would be far
>>>more effective, IMO.
>>
>>Only if the speed limits were appropriately set.
>>
>>Which they're not, for the most part here in the US.
>
>
> 35-45 mph is an appropriate speed for most roads I have seen.

I'm curious: How do you know that is an appropriate speed? Is that a
"feels good to me" appropriate speed, or an appropriate speed chosen
using the best available scientific methods?

> Especially if you are driving a truck or top heavy SUV.

Which I'm not.

> Even going the speed limit I
> can feel more body roll on a small Ranger truck. Imagine if it were
> raining- do you really think people should be driving in excess of 35-45mph
> in heavy rain?

No, I think people should be using their own best judgment to pick a
speed at which they feel both safe and comfortable, regardless of the
posted speed limit. Time and again studies have shown that people will
generally pick an appropriate speed all by themselves.

Honestly, I think the entire country would be _much_ better off if
speedometers were prohibited from being in plain view of the driver.


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

"Garth Almgren" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm curious: How do you know that is an appropriate speed? Is that a
> "feels good to me" appropriate speed, or an appropriate speed chosen
> using the best available scientific methods?

You don't think the engineers who build the roads and advise government
are the least bit competent?

> No, I think people should be using their own best judgment to pick a
> speed at which they feel both safe and comfortable, regardless of the
> posted speed limit. Time and again studies have shown that people will
> generally pick an appropriate speed all by themselves.

But people often don't use their best judgement, or they totally lack
judgement. They'll do stupid stuff, like speed at night, or drive too fast
in fog. The speed limit is a good guide.

Another thing to add. When you are speeding, you are increasing the
damage you will sustain and inflict should an accident happen. That's a
perfectly legitimate reason to limit the speed of cars.

People who always think they know better often are over confident, in my
experience. What makes you think you "know better" than the rest of society
what to set the speed limit as, that you are such a hotshot that you'll
never have an accident where the extra bit of speed won't be the difference
between life and death for yourself or the person you hit?

If it were an empty road and you were the only possible driver, I'd say
drive as fast as you want. But that's not how it works.

"Garth Almgren" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm curious: How do you know that is an appropriate speed? Is that a
> "feels good to me" appropriate speed, or an appropriate speed chosen
> using the best available scientific methods?

You don't think the engineers who build the roads and advise government
are the least bit competent?

> No, I think people should be using their own best judgment to pick a
> speed at which they feel both safe and comfortable, regardless of the
> posted speed limit. Time and again studies have shown that people will
> generally pick an appropriate speed all by themselves.

But people often don't use their best judgement, or they totally lack
judgement. They'll do stupid stuff, like speed at night, or drive too fast
in fog. The speed limit is a good guide.

Another thing to add. When you are speeding, you are increasing the
damage you will sustain and inflict should an accident happen. That's a
perfectly legitimate reason to limit the speed of cars.

People who always think they know better often are over confident, in my
experience. What makes you think you "know better" than the rest of society
what to set the speed limit as, that you are such a hotshot that you'll
never have an accident where the extra bit of speed won't be the difference
between life and death for yourself or the person you hit?

If it were an empty road and you were the only possible driver, I'd say
drive as fast as you want. But that's not how it works.

"BE" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Toyota Prius hybrid...
>
>

But how do you get one for around 2100 dollars, and not wait a year and a
half? IMO, it was really foolish on Toyota's part not to anticipate demand,
either that, or they are intentionally limiting the supply to create a
word-of-mouth advertising. "Woah, he's driving a Prius. He must be
loaded." I can't say it's all bad, as increasing the prestige of a fuel
efficient car isn't entirely bad.

Also, the speedometer on the thing isn't straight ahead. It's a minor
peeve of mine. I don't think it would make the car undriveable, but it is a
little inconvenient (I want a heads-up-display on a car). Also the Star
Trek style power display in the middle of the car is a bit distracting.

A hybrid Camry would be nice. Leave off all the Star Trek looking gadgets
and just make it look like a regular car.

"BE" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Toyota Prius hybrid...
>
>

But how do you get one for around 2100 dollars, and not wait a year and a
half? IMO, it was really foolish on Toyota's part not to anticipate demand,
either that, or they are intentionally limiting the supply to create a
word-of-mouth advertising. "Woah, he's driving a Prius. He must be
loaded." I can't say it's all bad, as increasing the prestige of a fuel
efficient car isn't entirely bad.

Also, the speedometer on the thing isn't straight ahead. It's a minor
peeve of mine. I don't think it would make the car undriveable, but it is a
little inconvenient (I want a heads-up-display on a car). Also the Star
Trek style power display in the middle of the car is a bit distracting.

A hybrid Camry would be nice. Leave off all the Star Trek looking gadgets
and just make it look like a regular car.

Around 1/9/2005 2:51 PM, Magnulus wrote:

> "Garth Almgren" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I'm curious: How do you know that is an appropriate speed? Is that a
>>"feels good to me" appropriate speed, or an appropriate speed chosen
>>using the best available scientific methods?
>
>
> You don't think the engineers who build the roads and advise government
> are the least bit competent?

Certainly. How about we start *using* their recommendations instead of
almost completely ignoring them like we do now?


>>No, I think people should be using their own best judgment to pick a
>>speed at which they feel both safe and comfortable, regardless of the
>>posted speed limit. Time and again studies have shown that people will
>>generally pick an appropriate speed all by themselves.
>
>
> But people often don't use their best judgement, or they totally lack
> judgement.

Maybe. Most people have no intrinsic desire to do themselves harm, but
many lack the basic training necessary to judge when it is appropriate
to slow down.

However, despite this lack of training, *most* people still manage to
somehow choose a safe speed for themselves.

> They'll do stupid stuff, like speed at night, or drive too fast
> in fog. The speed limit is a good guide.

.... Again, when it's properly posted, using those ignored traffic
engineer's recommendations we talked about earlier.


> Another thing to add. When you are speeding,

Who said anything about me speeding?

> you are increasing the
> damage you will sustain and inflict should an accident happen.

Then it might be a good idea to avoid having an accident in the first
place by driving at the statistically safest speed, eh?

Did you know that you're least likely to be involved in a collision if
you're traveling roughly 10 MPH faster than the average speed of traffic?


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Around 1/9/2005 2:51 PM, Magnulus wrote:

> "Garth Almgren" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I'm curious: How do you know that is an appropriate speed? Is that a
>>"feels good to me" appropriate speed, or an appropriate speed chosen
>>using the best available scientific methods?
>
>
> You don't think the engineers who build the roads and advise government
> are the least bit competent?

Certainly. How about we start *using* their recommendations instead of
almost completely ignoring them like we do now?


>>No, I think people should be using their own best judgment to pick a
>>speed at which they feel both safe and comfortable, regardless of the
>>posted speed limit. Time and again studies have shown that people will
>>generally pick an appropriate speed all by themselves.
>
>
> But people often don't use their best judgement, or they totally lack
> judgement.

Maybe. Most people have no intrinsic desire to do themselves harm, but
many lack the basic training necessary to judge when it is appropriate
to slow down.

However, despite this lack of training, *most* people still manage to
somehow choose a safe speed for themselves.

> They'll do stupid stuff, like speed at night, or drive too fast
> in fog. The speed limit is a good guide.

.... Again, when it's properly posted, using those ignored traffic
engineer's recommendations we talked about earlier.


> Another thing to add. When you are speeding,

Who said anything about me speeding?

> you are increasing the
> damage you will sustain and inflict should an accident happen.

Then it might be a good idea to avoid having an accident in the first
place by driving at the statistically safest speed, eh?

Did you know that you're least likely to be involved in a collision if
you're traveling roughly 10 MPH faster than the average speed of traffic?


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

> I'd like to get a car. Not just any car, but one that's not a gas
>guzzler. But also one that's safe. I really like the concept of a hybrid
>car. My only beef? There's really only 3 choices in hybrids. The Honda
>Insight is too small, not enough seats. The Honda Civic Hybrid is OK, but
>has a small torso side airbag. The Prius, at 27,000-32,000 dollars is
>overpriced, and after test driving one, I am convinced it is too wierd,
>especially in light of teh pricetag. But it does have curtain and side
>airbags.

Toyota is supposed to have a hybrid version of the Highlander out this spring.
You may want to wait for that.
Ford has a hybrid version of their small SUV, the Escape.
If you want safety and economy, look at a Saab 4-cylinder turbo, 9-5 or station
wagon. Turbos aren't just for speed. They aid fuel economy and produce cleaner
emissions by reburning exhaust gases. Saabs can be run on any grade of gas.
They get the best performance on super, but will do ok on regular.


http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

> I'd like to get a car. Not just any car, but one that's not a gas
>guzzler. But also one that's safe. I really like the concept of a hybrid
>car. My only beef? There's really only 3 choices in hybrids. The Honda
>Insight is too small, not enough seats. The Honda Civic Hybrid is OK, but
>has a small torso side airbag. The Prius, at 27,000-32,000 dollars is
>overpriced, and after test driving one, I am convinced it is too wierd,
>especially in light of teh pricetag. But it does have curtain and side
>airbags.

Toyota is supposed to have a hybrid version of the Highlander out this spring.
You may want to wait for that.
Ford has a hybrid version of their small SUV, the Escape.
If you want safety and economy, look at a Saab 4-cylinder turbo, 9-5 or station
wagon. Turbos aren't just for speed. They aid fuel economy and produce cleaner
emissions by reburning exhaust gases. Saabs can be run on any grade of gas.
They get the best performance on super, but will do ok on regular.


http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

"Garth Almgren" > wrote in message
...
>
> Did you know that you're least likely to be involved in a collision if
> you're traveling roughly 10 MPH faster than the average speed of traffic?
>

Really, please cite a reference- I'd be curious to know why this is true?

Also, if you have an accident at 60mph vs. 40mph, the accident will
involve twice as much energy.

It's no surprise whenever I read about a multi-vehicle traffic crash in
the paper, and somebody is hurt or dead, either alcohol or speeding were a
factor on the part of one of the vehicles.