Toyota.

"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message >
> At one time Pontiac was the number 3 in sales nationwide. Now it's
> gone. It was because of the people who developed the Pontiacs made
> them cars people wanted. Then They let the bean counters take over.

What you are saying, I guess, is that bad management killed them.. I
would agree.

When you stop listening to your customers, you have no customers.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:18:59 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:

> On 01/14/2011 06:49 PM, Tegger wrote:
>> Nate > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> On 01/14/2011 03:18 PM, wrote:
>>>> On the web,
>>>> Aging, boring lineup of cars called problem for Toyota
>>>>
>>>> I am not bashing Toyota.I saw that article at,
>>>> http://www.clarionledger.com
>>>> (Business section)
>>>> cuhulin
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Toyota, the new Oldsmobile?
>>
>>
>> I don't think so. Olds was just one of five GM divisions. Increased
>> foreign competition eventually made Alfred Sloan's original vision
>> impracticable, and some of those divisions had to go.
>>
>> Toyota only has three divisions, with one of them very distinct from the
>> others marketing-wise (Lexus). If anything's going to die for Toyota, I
>> think it's going to be Scion.
>>
>> But Toyota has /never/ had the most exciting image. They did go postal
>> with the original MR2 and the FX-16, but kinda lost the plot after that.
>> If you buy a Toyota, you're looking for boring competence: cars that
>> just run and run and run and run.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> quite possibly... wasn't the Cutlass the best selling car in the US for
>>> several years back in the 70's?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yep. Those were /everywhere/ for a long time.
>>
>>
>>
> The point that I was trying to make was that somewhere along the line Olds
> went from having a home run hitter (in the Cutlass - and even before it
> was a best seller, it was still a contender - I remember seeing lots of
> the 68-up ones on the road as a kid, along with other A-bodies, and our
> own family car was a '67 which my dad had bought new) and the 88/98 were
> solid options for larger families. Then somewhere along the way everyone
> looked at Oldsmobile and just went "Oldsmobile...? meh." They weren't
> particularly *bad,* but they had all the excitement of low-fat vanilla
> pudding. And nobody but nobody bought them. Hope that doesn't happen to
> Toyota, but frankly, most of their current cars have that effect on me.
>
> I would really like a twin-turbo Supra, but there's two problems: 1) they
> don't sell 'em here anymore and 2) I *hate* F&F-loving ricers, so the
> styling of the last generation was a huge turnoff to me. They look
> reasonably OK without the basket handle though.

My Supra (88) isn't even a turbo, has a sluggish AT, but is STILL a blast
to drive.

I had to bring the Hachiroku in for service the day after the "new" Supra
was released in '93 and there was one on the showroom floor. WOW! But with
a sticker of $36,000 the best I could do was ask to sit in it. Fit like a
glove.

Toyota is a long, long ways away from the fun cars of the 80's...

>
> Even an old RWD Corolla holds more interest to me than anything Toyota
> currently makes...
>
> always wondered if a Supra drivetrain transplant into an old Cressida
> sedan would work? :P

Um....you realize the Supra drivetrain IS in the Cressida, right...?


>
> nate

On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 01:09:15 +0000, Tegger wrote:

>
>> Even an old RWD Corolla holds more interest to me than anything Toyota
>> currently makes...
>
>
> I had three of those, two of them TE72 Liftbacks.
>
> And this is how dull I am: I bought them not because they had blistering
> acceleration or stuck to the road like glue, but because they HELD LOTS OF
> CARGO! Like a Pinto wagon, but more reliable.


I bought them because they looked sorta cool, were good on gas, and were
TOYOTAS.

=?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= >
wrote in news
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 01:09:15 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>
>>
>>> Even an old RWD Corolla holds more interest to me than anything
>>> Toyota currently makes...
>>
>>
>> I had three of those, two of them TE72 Liftbacks.
>>
>> And this is how dull I am: I bought them not because they had
>> blistering acceleration or stuck to the road like glue, but because
>> they HELD LOTS OF CARGO! Like a Pinto wagon, but more reliable.
>
>
> I bought them because they looked sorta cool, were good on gas, and
> were TOYOTAS.
>
>



I also liked their looks, plus that little "pillarless hardtop" side window
that nobody else seemed to have.

And since the rear end was a coil-sprung live axle with ordinary shock
absorbers, it didn't intrude much into the cargo space, so the interior was
VERY efficient for space-usage.

Problem was, the Liftback looked vaguely like the Hyundai Pony, and people
sometimes made the mistake of thinking I had a Pony. What an insult.



--
Tegger

On Jan 19, 10:07 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B > wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:18:59 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
> > On 01/14/2011 06:49 PM, Tegger wrote:
> >> Nate > wrote in
> :
>
> >>> On 01/14/2011 03:18 PM, wrote:
> >>>> On the web,
> >>>> Aging, boring lineup of cars called problem for Toyota
>
> >>>> I am not bashing Toyota.I saw that article at,
> >>>>http://www.clarionledger.com
> >>>> (Business section)
> >>>> cuhulin
>
> >>> Toyota, the new Oldsmobile?
>
> >> I don't think so. Olds was just one of five GM divisions. Increased
> >> foreign competition eventually made Alfred Sloan's original vision
> >> impracticable, and some of those divisions had to go.
>
> >> Toyota only has three divisions, with one of them very distinct from the
> >> others marketing-wise (Lexus). If anything's going to die for Toyota, I
> >> think it's going to be Scion.
>
> >> But Toyota has /never/ had the most exciting image. They did go postal
> >> with the original MR2 and the FX-16, but kinda lost the plot after that.
> >> If you buy a Toyota, you're looking for boring competence: cars that
> >> just run and run and run and run.
>
> >>> quite possibly... wasn't the Cutlass the best selling car in the US for
> >>> several years back in the 70's?
>
> >> Yep. Those were /everywhere/ for a long time.
>
> > The point that I was trying to make was that somewhere along the line Olds
> > went from having a home run hitter (in the Cutlass - and even before it
> > was a best seller, it was still a contender - I remember seeing lots of
> > the 68-up ones on the road as a kid, along with other A-bodies, and our
> > own family car was a '67 which my dad had bought new) and the 88/98 were
> > solid options for larger families. Then somewhere along the way everyone
> > looked at Oldsmobile and just went "Oldsmobile...? meh." They weren't
> > particularly *bad,* but they had all the excitement of low-fat vanilla
> > pudding. And nobody but nobody bought them. Hope that doesn't happen to
> > Toyota, but frankly, most of their current cars have that effect on me.
>
> > I would really like a twin-turbo Supra, but there's two problems: 1) they
> > don't sell 'em here anymore and 2) I *hate* F&F-loving ricers, so the
> > styling of the last generation was a huge turnoff to me. They look
> > reasonably OK without the basket handle though.
>
> My Supra (88) isn't even a turbo, has a sluggish AT, but is STILL a blast
> to drive.
>
> I had to bring the Hachiroku in for service the day after the "new" Supra
> was released in '93 and there was one on the showroom floor. WOW! But with
> a sticker of $36,000 the best I could do was ask to sit in it. Fit like a
> glove.
>
> Toyota is a long, long ways away from the fun cars of the 80's...
>
>
>
> > Even an old RWD Corolla holds more interest to me than anything Toyota
> > currently makes...
>
> > always wondered if a Supra drivetrain transplant into an old Cressida
> > sedan would work? :P
>
> Um....you realize the Supra drivetrain IS in the Cressida, right...?

Not the twin turbo, nor a stickshift

I always wanted to build a "Fairmont GT" as well, so maybe I'm just a
little warped in the head. (not the one that's bolted to the block,
either.)

nate

On 2011-01-20, N8N > wrote:
> On Jan 19, 10:07 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B > wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:18:59 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> > On 01/14/2011 06:49 PM, Tegger wrote:
>> >> Nate > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> >>> On 01/14/2011 03:18 PM, wrote:
>> >>>> On the web,
>> >>>> Aging, boring lineup of cars called problem for Toyota
>>
>> >>>> I am not bashing Toyota.I saw that article at,
>> >>>>http://www.clarionledger.com
>> >>>> (Business section)
>> >>>> cuhulin
>>
>> >>> Toyota, the new Oldsmobile?
>>
>> >> I don't think so. Olds was just one of five GM divisions. Increased
>> >> foreign competition eventually made Alfred Sloan's original vision
>> >> impracticable, and some of those divisions had to go.
>>
>> >> Toyota only has three divisions, with one of them very distinct from the
>> >> others marketing-wise (Lexus). If anything's going to die for Toyota, I
>> >> think it's going to be Scion.
>>
>> >> But Toyota has /never/ had the most exciting image. They did go postal
>> >> with the original MR2 and the FX-16, but kinda lost the plot after that.
>> >> If you buy a Toyota, you're looking for boring competence: cars that
>> >> just run and run and run and run.
>>
>> >>> quite possibly... wasn't the Cutlass the best selling car in the US for
>> >>> several years back in the 70's?
>>
>> >> Yep. Those were /everywhere/ for a long time.
>>
>> > The point that I was trying to make was that somewhere along the line Olds
>> > went from having a home run hitter (in the Cutlass - and even before it
>> > was a best seller, it was still a contender - I remember seeing lots of
>> > the 68-up ones on the road as a kid, along with other A-bodies, and our
>> > own family car was a '67 which my dad had bought new) and the 88/98 were
>> > solid options for larger families. Then somewhere along the way everyone
>> > looked at Oldsmobile and just went "Oldsmobile...? meh." They weren't
>> > particularly *bad,* but they had all the excitement of low-fat vanilla
>> > pudding. And nobody but nobody bought them. Hope that doesn't happen to
>> > Toyota, but frankly, most of their current cars have that effect on me.
>>
>> > I would really like a twin-turbo Supra, but there's two problems: 1) they
>> > don't sell 'em here anymore and 2) I *hate* F&F-loving ricers, so the
>> > styling of the last generation was a huge turnoff to me. They look
>> > reasonably OK without the basket handle though.
>>
>> My Supra (88) isn't even a turbo, has a sluggish AT, but is STILL a blast
>> to drive.
>>
>> I had to bring the Hachiroku in for service the day after the "new" Supra
>> was released in '93 and there was one on the showroom floor. WOW! But with
>> a sticker of $36,000 the best I could do was ask to sit in it. Fit like a
>> glove.
>>
>> Toyota is a long, long ways away from the fun cars of the 80's...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Even an old RWD Corolla holds more interest to me than anything Toyota
>> > currently makes...
>>
>> > always wondered if a Supra drivetrain transplant into an old Cressida
>> > sedan would work? :P
>>
>> Um....you realize the Supra drivetrain IS in the Cressida, right...?
>
> Not the twin turbo, nor a stickshift
>
> I always wanted to build a "Fairmont GT" as well, so maybe I'm just a
> little warped in the head. (not the one that's bolted to the block,
> either.)

As in the fox platform ford of the US or some aussie falcon variant or
other ford from down under? I could understand the later, not really the
former.

=?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= >
wrote in :

> On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:51:38 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>

>>
>> Problem was, the Liftback looked vaguely like the Hyundai Pony, and
>> people sometimes made the mistake of thinking I had a Pony. What an
>> insult.
>
>
> Now, did the wndow roll down on yours, or fixed? I had the "Trueno"
> (what later became the "Hachiroku") that had the fixed windows behind
> the doors.



The window immediately behind the door windows? It rolled down, and
ALL the way. The Liftback and the Notchback both had that.

The Coupe had a thick black pillar behind the door windows,
and a much more steeply-slanted hatch. Not nearly as useful as
the Liftback.




>
> That car cemented my relationship with Toyota. I traded it in '86 with
> 244,000 miles on it for the Hachi.


The AE86 was the generation after the TE72.

Close to mine:
<http://www.oldparkedcars.com/2010/05/1982-toyota-corolla-liftback-2.html>
Mine was a metallic blue SR-5, and had the "petal" wheels
with trim rings. Got photos somewhere...

The Notchback:
<http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4468191-check-out-my-new-ride>

The Coupe:
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/7977458@N08/4448508077/>

The AE86:
<http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1565944>

The AE86 was pretty much an updated TE72 Coupe.




>
> They need to get back to that way of building cars.
>
>



Oh yeah. If I wasn't in the rust-ridden North-east, I'd seriously consider
getting another TE72 Liftback.


--
Tegger

=?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= >
wrote in :

> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 02:54:54 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>

>>
>> Oh yeah. If I wasn't in the rust-ridden North-east, I'd seriously
>> consider getting another TE72 Liftback.
>
> Mine didn't rust! It was one of the only Toyotas I ever had that
> didn't rust. I can't remember if it was Rusty'd or not, or Waxoyl.
> Can't remember if I paid the extra or not.



Mine died of rust. That's the only reason I had to buy something else,
which turned out to be the Integra (which is 20-years-old this year!).



> > I had the coupe. It was definitely one hell of a car. It had a 1.8L
> Hemi, however. No neck-snapping acceleration, but it would go pretty
> good and hit 85 on the highway without breaking a sweat.




Guys used to laugh when I told them my Japmobile had a Hemi...
But it was TRUE!



>
> Highest I ever went with that was ~112. Not like the 129 in the
> Hachi...



That fast? Mine never managed anywhere near that.

Take a look at this photo, snapped at-speed in 1987 in a Liftback:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/howfast.jpg>
The car was maxed in 5th gear. Nothing more left.

Care to take a guess at decoding the Claybrook speedometer?
Hint: It ain't impressive.



>
> Northeast? I thought you were out near Vancouver!
>



I'm in Ontario; never been anywhere close to Vancouver. My Usenet provider
is in the Puget Sound area, though, hence my west-coast IP address.


--
Tegger

On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 09:09:33 -0800, N8N wrote:

> I always wanted to build a "Fairmont GT" as well


Why?!?!?!

Wasn't the Fairmont based on the Mustang of the time, or vice-versa?

I rented a Fairmont when my Hachiroku got boosted until I was able to put
it back together. As much as I disliked American cars, it wasn't bad.

Wasn't GOOD, just not too bad.

My parents had a Zephyr, 1980. Just to show the "attention to detail", the
driver's side had chrome door mouldings. The passenger's didn't.

Three transmissions later my Mom was pulling into the worst intersection
in town when the tranny slipped. She turned around, came home and parked
the car and told my stepdad she was NEVER driving that car again. A week
later there was a Camry in the garage.

It's still there with a whopping 84,000 miles on it.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:51:38 +0000, Tegger wrote:

> =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= > wrote
> in news >
>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 01:09:15 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Even an old RWD Corolla holds more interest to me than anything Toyota
>>>> currently makes...
>>>
>>>
>>> I had three of those, two of them TE72 Liftbacks.
>>>
>>> And this is how dull I am: I bought them not because they had
>>> blistering acceleration or stuck to the road like glue, but because
>>> they HELD LOTS OF CARGO! Like a Pinto wagon, but more reliable.
>>
>>
>> I bought them because they looked sorta cool, were good on gas, and were
>> TOYOTAS.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I also liked their looks, plus that little "pillarless hardtop" side
> window that nobody else seemed to have.
>
> And since the rear end was a coil-sprung live axle with ordinary shock
> absorbers, it didn't intrude much into the cargo space, so the interior
> was VERY efficient for space-usage.
>
> Problem was, the Liftback looked vaguely like the Hyundai Pony, and people
> sometimes made the mistake of thinking I had a Pony. What an insult.


Now, did the wndow roll down on yours, or fixed? I had the "Trueno" (what
later became the "Hachiroku") that had the fixed windows behind the doors.

That car cemented my relationship with Toyota. I traded it in '86 with
244,000 miles on it for the Hachi.

They need to get back to that way of building cars.