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what's a starter?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 19th 04, 02:14 AM
Dee
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Since the subject has been brought up: Can an ignition switch be wearing out
but only exhibit symptoms on occasion, or do they typically go out all at
once? This happened to me about a week ago (every time I let the key go the
motor died), but hasn't done it since.




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  #12  
Old November 19th 04, 03:23 AM
Abeness
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Dee wrote:
> Since the subject has been brought up: Can an ignition switch be wearing out
> but only exhibit symptoms on occasion,


I should think so. One of the problems that affect electrical contacts
is that they slowly become carbonized (or is it oxidized?) from the
spark that occurs when they first join to complete a circuit,
particularly where grease has been applied--just think of what happens
to your iron skillet when you pour fry oil out of it and some runs down
the side, then gets completely burned on the next time you use it if you
forget to wipe it off thoroughly. The initial spark of connecting
contacts is hot and does the same thing over a long period. I'm pretty
sure that the last ignition switch I saw was greased (not Honda), as
would be expected.

Depending on how you turn and release the key, more or less spark can
result. More spark, and for longer, results in quicker
carbonization/oxidation and/or contact damage. The
carbonization/oxidation eventually builds up to the point where
sufficient electrical contact to power the circuit can no longer be
made--the resistance is too great. However, there can easily be a period
of time leading up to permanent failure when the contact can still be
made sufficiently to operate the circuit, despite intermittent failure.
For example, when the contact jiggles a little--the parts of the contact
which are dirtier sometimes make contact, resulting in failure, while
when the cleaner portions connect the circuit works (in this case, the
engine runs).

Hope that made sense--I'm no electrical engineer and may have the
terminology wrong, but I've seen and worked with lots of electrical
contacts.
  #13  
Old November 19th 04, 03:23 AM
Abeness
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Posts: n/a
Default

Dee wrote:
> Since the subject has been brought up: Can an ignition switch be wearing out
> but only exhibit symptoms on occasion,


I should think so. One of the problems that affect electrical contacts
is that they slowly become carbonized (or is it oxidized?) from the
spark that occurs when they first join to complete a circuit,
particularly where grease has been applied--just think of what happens
to your iron skillet when you pour fry oil out of it and some runs down
the side, then gets completely burned on the next time you use it if you
forget to wipe it off thoroughly. The initial spark of connecting
contacts is hot and does the same thing over a long period. I'm pretty
sure that the last ignition switch I saw was greased (not Honda), as
would be expected.

Depending on how you turn and release the key, more or less spark can
result. More spark, and for longer, results in quicker
carbonization/oxidation and/or contact damage. The
carbonization/oxidation eventually builds up to the point where
sufficient electrical contact to power the circuit can no longer be
made--the resistance is too great. However, there can easily be a period
of time leading up to permanent failure when the contact can still be
made sufficiently to operate the circuit, despite intermittent failure.
For example, when the contact jiggles a little--the parts of the contact
which are dirtier sometimes make contact, resulting in failure, while
when the cleaner portions connect the circuit works (in this case, the
engine runs).

Hope that made sense--I'm no electrical engineer and may have the
terminology wrong, but I've seen and worked with lots of electrical
contacts.
  #14  
Old November 19th 04, 05:35 PM
Dee
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Thank you VERY much for your detailed reply. It's been starting fine since
then, but the past couple days I detected the smell of gasoline when I come
to a stop after a highway drive, so a tune-up and thorough checkup is in
order. I'm sure I'll be replacing the ignition switch, too; it's not that
expensive a part. Thanks again.




> I should think so. One of the problems that affect electrical contacts
> is that they slowly become carbonized (or is it oxidized?) from the
> spark that occurs when they first join to complete a circuit,
> particularly where grease has been applied--just think of what happens
> to your iron skillet when you pour fry oil out of it and some runs down
> the side, then gets completely burned on the next time you use it if you
> forget to wipe it off thoroughly. The initial spark of connecting
> contacts is hot and does the same thing over a long period. I'm pretty
> sure that the last ignition switch I saw was greased (not Honda), as
> would be expected.
>
> Depending on how you turn and release the key, more or less spark can
> result. More spark, and for longer, results in quicker
> carbonization/oxidation and/or contact damage. The
> carbonization/oxidation eventually builds up to the point where
> sufficient electrical contact to power the circuit can no longer be
> made--the resistance is too great. However, there can easily be a period
> of time leading up to permanent failure when the contact can still be
> made sufficiently to operate the circuit, despite intermittent failure.
> For example, when the contact jiggles a little--the parts of the contact
> which are dirtier sometimes make contact, resulting in failure, while
> when the cleaner portions connect the circuit works (in this case, the
> engine runs).
>
> Hope that made sense--I'm no electrical engineer and may have the
> terminology wrong, but I've seen and worked with lots of electrical
> contacts.





  #15  
Old November 19th 04, 05:35 PM
Dee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you VERY much for your detailed reply. It's been starting fine since
then, but the past couple days I detected the smell of gasoline when I come
to a stop after a highway drive, so a tune-up and thorough checkup is in
order. I'm sure I'll be replacing the ignition switch, too; it's not that
expensive a part. Thanks again.




> I should think so. One of the problems that affect electrical contacts
> is that they slowly become carbonized (or is it oxidized?) from the
> spark that occurs when they first join to complete a circuit,
> particularly where grease has been applied--just think of what happens
> to your iron skillet when you pour fry oil out of it and some runs down
> the side, then gets completely burned on the next time you use it if you
> forget to wipe it off thoroughly. The initial spark of connecting
> contacts is hot and does the same thing over a long period. I'm pretty
> sure that the last ignition switch I saw was greased (not Honda), as
> would be expected.
>
> Depending on how you turn and release the key, more or less spark can
> result. More spark, and for longer, results in quicker
> carbonization/oxidation and/or contact damage. The
> carbonization/oxidation eventually builds up to the point where
> sufficient electrical contact to power the circuit can no longer be
> made--the resistance is too great. However, there can easily be a period
> of time leading up to permanent failure when the contact can still be
> made sufficiently to operate the circuit, despite intermittent failure.
> For example, when the contact jiggles a little--the parts of the contact
> which are dirtier sometimes make contact, resulting in failure, while
> when the cleaner portions connect the circuit works (in this case, the
> engine runs).
>
> Hope that made sense--I'm no electrical engineer and may have the
> terminology wrong, but I've seen and worked with lots of electrical
> contacts.





  #16  
Old November 19th 04, 10:19 PM
Abeness
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Posts: n/a
Default

Dee wrote:
> Thank you VERY much for your detailed reply. It's been starting fine since
> then, but the past couple days I detected the smell of gasoline when I come
> to a stop after a highway drive, so a tune-up and thorough checkup is in
> order. I'm sure I'll be replacing the ignition switch, too; it's not that
> expensive a part. Thanks again.


What year is the car? It's possible that the engine dying upon releasing
the key could be related to something else, especially if it's been
working fine since. I merely meant to observe that intermittent failure
is a possibility with an ignition switch, not to confirm that your
ignition switch is failing. You may want to start with the tuneup first
to see how that turns out.

I don't like to replace things until it's really necessary, and as I'm
relatively new to Hondas I'd hate to see you spend money you don't have
to, based on my comments. On the other hand, if you really can't afford
to get stuck, the car is an older model, and you're sure that the engine
dying upon releasing the key wasn't merely flooding, replacing it could
be preventive medicine.

Hopefully others will chime in with their experience.
  #17  
Old November 19th 04, 10:19 PM
Abeness
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dee wrote:
> Thank you VERY much for your detailed reply. It's been starting fine since
> then, but the past couple days I detected the smell of gasoline when I come
> to a stop after a highway drive, so a tune-up and thorough checkup is in
> order. I'm sure I'll be replacing the ignition switch, too; it's not that
> expensive a part. Thanks again.


What year is the car? It's possible that the engine dying upon releasing
the key could be related to something else, especially if it's been
working fine since. I merely meant to observe that intermittent failure
is a possibility with an ignition switch, not to confirm that your
ignition switch is failing. You may want to start with the tuneup first
to see how that turns out.

I don't like to replace things until it's really necessary, and as I'm
relatively new to Hondas I'd hate to see you spend money you don't have
to, based on my comments. On the other hand, if you really can't afford
to get stuck, the car is an older model, and you're sure that the engine
dying upon releasing the key wasn't merely flooding, replacing it could
be preventive medicine.

Hopefully others will chime in with their experience.
  #18  
Old November 20th 04, 12:40 AM
Dee
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Posts: n/a
Default

<< What year is the car? It's possible that the engine dying upon releasing
the key could be related to something else, especially if it's been working
fine since >>

It is indeed an older model -- a '94 Accord EX 2.2 sedan with 125+K miles.
It's never given me a moment's trouble in the 8 years I've owned it, which
might be why I'm jumping to conclusions. <g>
I'll start with a tune-up, which, based on the classic symptoms of flooding,
will most likely take care of the problem. I am, however, filing away
"ignition switch" for future reference. I do appreciate the heads-up.




  #19  
Old November 20th 04, 12:40 AM
Dee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

<< What year is the car? It's possible that the engine dying upon releasing
the key could be related to something else, especially if it's been working
fine since >>

It is indeed an older model -- a '94 Accord EX 2.2 sedan with 125+K miles.
It's never given me a moment's trouble in the 8 years I've owned it, which
might be why I'm jumping to conclusions. <g>
I'll start with a tune-up, which, based on the classic symptoms of flooding,
will most likely take care of the problem. I am, however, filing away
"ignition switch" for future reference. I do appreciate the heads-up.




 




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