Another hypothetical situation

>>
>>>In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very
>
> few
>
>>>were given a smiley face
>>>where road noise was concerned.


<tons of speculation deleted>

OR maybe its just because the candy-butt "car as an appliance" types
doing the "evaluations" at the magazines now put WAY more emphasis on
road noise and wind noise than they ever did before. The truth of the
matter is that a lot of heavy-duty pickup trucks of today have less wind
and road noise than mid-to-upper price passenger cars of the 70s-
Although nothing has really matched the likes of the last big Cadillac
('76) Lincoln ('77) or New Yorker ('78). The last modern car I got in
and thought "wow, that's a lot of road noise" was a POS Kia Optima that
Avis stuck me with at Dulles a few months back, but I'm not really sure
that counts as an "automobile." :-p

But don't use me as an example- I'm one of the ones that complained
about the 300C and Magnum R/T not sounding enough like a real engine,
which led Chrysler to design a throatier exhaust system for the Charger R/T.

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
>

A few years ago, my daughter needed a new car and wanted a Nissan. Like a
fool, I wanted her to check
around some, and went with her to test drive a new Mustang. What a POS!
Rumbling rolling stock noise,
just pure crap.

The Nissan was a pretty quiet car beside it.

Back in the old days, we drove Fords that did not have air conditioning, and
they would beat you to death
on the road. ... Jiggle, wind blowing in, etc. Very unpleasant.

Now, I wonder if there is any need for a car to be noisy or jittery? Does
it really cost that much to make something
of really high quality?

I have nothing evil to say about Chrysler, although they have been flamed a
lot lately. We traditionally drive
Buicks, and they have a fair (although soft butted) ride, reasonable noise
and jitter, and fair mileage. To me,
the downside is the electrics.

Do you have to pay $50,000 to get the quiet and smooth ride of a LS430? Or
could you take a Toyota Camry
and trick it out?

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:08:27 GMT, > wrote:

>
>"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 16:10:52 GMT, > wrote:
>>
>> >In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very
>few
>> >were given a smiley face
>> >where road noise was concerned.
>> >
>> >I have ridden in some cars where the rumble from the front suspension,
>road
>> >noise, wind noise were
>> >nearly unbearable. Now, maybe in the higher end cars of similar chassis
>> >series, the problems
>> >may be less.
>> >
>> >The question is, is it possible to make a silk purse from a sow's ear?
>Is
>> >insulation enough, or does the
>> >problem get into subframe reinforcement, welding, and techniques yet
>> >undefined?
>> >
>>
>> The primary reason, IMHO, is because of the shift away from body on
>> frame to unibody combined with the use of thinner body panels and
>> stiffer suspension bushings. But as with anything, it's highly
>> variable, some old cars were noisy and some new cars are quiet. All
>> the truly quiet cars I've had were body on frame, Full sized Chevy's,
>> Dodge's and Fords from the 70's and 80's.
>>
>> You might recall how Ford used to advertise how quiet their cars were
>> and one of the reasons was that the glass was thicker they said.
>> You'll notice they don't talk about them being quiet anymore because
>> like most makes, their bread and butter cars have gotten very noisy
>> compared to years ago.
>>
>> Just as a specific comparison, I had a 69 Firebird, which was unibody,
>> that was a VERY quiet car, one of the quietest I have ever owned even
>> though it was a 400 high performance model. I bought a 76 vette to
>> replace it with an the vette was so noisy (and hard riding) I sold it
>> and kept the Firebird another 5 years. I now have a 99 GT and it is
>> an incredibly noisy car, you almost need to wear earplugs on a long
>> trip. Part of that is the wide tires but most of it is thinner panels
>> and hard suspension bushings that transmit road noise. And that's
>> after I went thru it with foam and dynamat to try and quiet it down.
>> I have a 89 S-10 that's actually pretty quiet, much quieter then the
>> Mustang, mostly because it's body on frame (like all cars used to be),
>> most of the noise in it comes from wind noise. I also have a 2005
>> Crown Vic, which is pretty quiet but not as quiet as the older full
>> sized cars were, again it goes back to the thinner panels (to save
>> weight and money), thinner carpets, thinner glass, wider tires, and
>> general cost cutting.
>
>Makes sense to me. I feel that, in a project car, one might be able to
>add insulation, spray on acoustic foam, etc to help with noise.
>
>'Jitter', for lack of a better word, is another phenomenon that makes
>cars unpleasant to drive. I don't mean a correctable shimmy or wobble.
>In 1990, I drove a number (5-6) Ford Thunderbirds from various
>dealerships because I thought it was a nice looking car at a reasonable
>price. All of them had this 'jitter', some extremely unpleasant, some
>almost
>liveable, but not one of them had the smooth 'eel in an oil barrel' feel
>that
>I had hoped for. Salesmen had all sorts of lame explanations, none of which
>washed.
>
>Perhaps unibody reinforcements, shock tower stabilizers, etc would help
>this too.
>
>And then maybe the sow's ear will never be a silk purse
>

That reminds my of a 1980 Chevy X-car (Citation) I owned. It was one
of Chevy's first FWD little cars. And it did NOT have enough "beam"
or torsional stiffness. Felt like driving a wet noodle. Hated that
car.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:25:08 -0500, Steve > wrote:

>
>>>
>>>>In looking over some of the evaluations of late model automobiles, very
>>
>> few
>>
>>>>were given a smiley face
>>>>where road noise was concerned.
>
>
><tons of speculation deleted>
>
>OR maybe its just because the candy-butt "car as an appliance" types
>doing the "evaluations" at the magazines now put WAY more emphasis on
>road noise and wind noise than they ever did before.

Actually, I think they put less emphasis on it. Now it's all about
power and handling (which is OK, but not the ONLY thing). Many car
mags for years and years had dB readings for interior noise at idle,
cruise, and WOT. I'm not sure if they even bother anymore. But it
was good to know. I've got a cheap dB meter and I can easily see the
difference in readings between my Crown Vic and my GT.


The truth of the
>matter is that a lot of heavy-duty pickup trucks of today have less wind
>and road noise than mid-to-upper price passenger cars of the 70s-
>Although nothing has really matched the likes of the last big Cadillac
>('76) Lincoln ('77) or New Yorker ('78). The last modern car I got in
>and thought "wow, that's a lot of road noise" was a POS Kia Optima that
>Avis stuck me with at Dulles a few months back, but I'm not really sure
>that counts as an "automobile." :-p
>
>But don't use me as an example- I'm one of the ones that complained
>about the 300C and Magnum R/T not sounding enough like a real engine,
>which led Chrysler to design a throatier exhaust system for the Charger R/T.