Follow up...Oil changes, Toyotas, and GM problems

In a recent post, I voiced my discontent with the way GM had handled the
plenum
failure problem in general, and mentioned it might be time to look at a
Toyota.

Someone (pardon for not remembering whom) posted that Toyota had also had
problems with sludging engines, leading to failure in some instances.

Drove the Toyota today. Wonderfully quiet, smooth, and responsive. Was
really
impressed.

So I asked about the sludging problem while at the dealership. They
confirmed it
had happened and gave the reason that many people tried to run too long
between
oil changes. They said that the manual clearly called for oil and filter
changes near
the 3000 mile interval, but a lot of people tried to push oils to 7500 and
more. And it
just didnt work.

This post covers several items, and comments are welcome.

wrote:
> In a recent post, I voiced my discontent with the way GM had handled the
> plenum
> failure problem in general, and mentioned it might be time to look at a
> Toyota.
>
> Someone (pardon for not remembering whom) posted that Toyota had also had
> problems with sludging engines, leading to failure in some instances.
>
> Drove the Toyota today. Wonderfully quiet, smooth, and responsive. Was
> really
> impressed.
>
> So I asked about the sludging problem while at the dealership. They
> confirmed it
> had happened and gave the reason that many people tried to run too long
> between
> oil changes. They said that the manual clearly called for oil and filter
> changes near
> the 3000 mile interval, but a lot of people tried to push oils to 7500 and
> more. And it
> just didnt work.
>
> This post covers several items, and comments are welcome.

I believe Toyota settled several lawsuits to get out of a bad PR
problem. They required virtually no documentation that an oil change
had been done - I think the threshold was one change in a year!

Like you and the car dealer I believe the purported sludging problem is
tied entirely to lousy maintenance practices by a handfull of Toyota
car owners. You can't run an engine to 10,000 miles between oil
changes without damaging the engine and causing a sludging problem. My
son's Camry has 210,000 miles with no evidence of sludging, but it gets
an oil change every 3,000 miles.

As the saying goes, Pay Me Now or Pay Me Later, but You Will Pay.

"John S." > wrote in message
oups.com...

> Like you and the car dealer I believe the purported sludging problem is
> tied entirely to lousy maintenance practices by a handfull of Toyota
> car owners. You can't run an engine to 10,000 miles between oil
> changes without damaging the engine and causing a sludging problem. My
> son's Camry has 210,000 miles with no evidence of sludging, but it gets
> an oil change every 3,000 miles.
>
> As the saying goes, Pay Me Now or Pay Me Later, but You Will Pay


Totally agree. This has been my philosophy for a long time, and I am
reinforced in it. When I can run cars for 100,000 to 200,000 miles with
no oil burning and no engine problems (as I have for as long as I have
used this maintenance schedule), I need not defend my choices further.

wrote:

> In a recent post, I voiced my discontent with the way GM had handled the
> plenum
> failure problem in general, and mentioned it might be time to look at a
> Toyota.
>
> Someone (pardon for not remembering whom) posted that Toyota had also had
> problems with sludging engines, leading to failure in some instances.
>
> Drove the Toyota today. Wonderfully quiet, smooth, and responsive. Was
> really
> impressed.
>
> So I asked about the sludging problem while at the dealership. They
> confirmed it
> had happened and gave the reason that many people tried to run too long
> between
> oil changes. They said that the manual clearly called for oil and filter
> changes near
> the 3000 mile interval, but a lot of people tried to push oils to 7500 and
> more. And it
> just didnt work.
>
> This post covers several items, and comments are welcome.


That's what I'd expect them to say, but I don't believe a word of it.
LOTS of engines run perfectly well on 7000 or 9000 mile oil changes, so
why don't Toyotas? Are Toyota owners maintenance slobs and everyone else
takes perfect care of their cars?

Horsefeathers. They have (or had) an engineering problem with those
engines, and they failed too often and too consistently. And that's
another thing- why was it just a couple of PARTICULAR Toyota engines and
not all of them?

Toyota isn't perfect, unlike what they'd love for you to believe. They
laid an egg, and blaming it all on "poor maintenance" just puts more egg
on their own faces.

We've been around and around over this in the ole' Toyota forum. I've
de-sludged a few hundred of those darn 6 cylinders since they started
showing up a few years back, and not ONE had documentation of a reasonable
service history. They were all either spotty (10k intervals or more or so),
or absent of any records at all.
There are a buch of wierdos out there who like to blame Toyota, but
whatever. Maintain the machines you depend on every day, you know?
Toyota's decent though, for the money. If you like it, but it and head
on over to alt.toyota

wrote:

>Someone (pardon for not remembering whom) posted that Toyota had also had
>problems with sludging engines, leading to failure in some instances.

>So I asked about the sludging problem while at the dealership. They
>confirmed it had happened and gave the reason that many people tried
>to run too long between oil changes. They said that the manual
>clearly called for oil and filter changes near the 3000 mile
>interval, but a lot of people tried to push oils to 7500 and
>more. And it just didnt work.

Nonsense. Car makers have allowed 7500-mile oil change intervals for
about 30 years now and haven't had major sludge problems, despite the
SE and SF rated oils back then being much worse at preventing sludge
than today's SL and SM oils. Many cars now have 10,000-15,000 mile oil
change requirements and few sludge problems. Toyota simply made a
major mistake when it reduced the amount of positive crankcase
ventilation (PCV) in order to regulate the combustion more accurately
for emissions purposes (crankcase blow-by gases burn, just as gasoline
does). Toyota reduced it too much, and any mechanic can tell you that
this can greatly increase the build-up of sludge.

> Toyota isn't perfect, unlike what they'd love for you to believe. They
> laid an egg, and blaming it all on "poor maintenance" just puts more egg
> on their own faces.

Steve,

With no disrespect intended, if they tell you to change the oil at roughly
3000 mile intervals, and you dont do it, who is at fault?

Now, I cant prove that this was the case, but IF you are given the clear
instructions, and cant comply, it darn sure isnt Toyota's fault.

If you find a manufacturer that will approve 20,000 mile oil changes, fine.
If I were the manufacturer, I wouldnt

Toyota reduced it too much, and any mechanic can tell you that
> this can greatly increase the build-up of sludge.

Perhaps you are right, and perhaps not. IF the manual instructed you
to change the oil at 3000 mile intervals (and I cannot confirm this) and
you chose not to do it, then the onus is upon you.

There are lots of engineering foibles in every branch of modern
technology. If you choose to ignore the requirements, then you have
no one to blame but yourself.

IF you follow the factory specifications and there is a class of
repetitive failures, then the courts may have to be the eventual
referees.

wrote:

> In a recent post, I voiced my discontent with the way GM had handled the
> plenum
> failure problem in general, and mentioned it might be time to look at a
> Toyota.
>
> Someone (pardon for not remembering whom) posted that Toyota had also had
> problems with sludging engines, leading to failure in some instances.
>
> Drove the Toyota today. Wonderfully quiet, smooth, and responsive. Was
> really
> impressed.
>
> So I asked about the sludging problem while at the dealership. They
> confirmed it
> had happened and gave the reason that many people tried to run too long
> between
> oil changes. They said that the manual clearly called for oil and filter
> changes near
> the 3000 mile interval, but a lot of people tried to push oils to 7500 and
> more. And it
> just didnt work.
>
> This post covers several items, and comments are welcome.
My previous boss too his wife's Camry to the toyota dealer every 3000 miles
for an oil change and still lost the engine at 20something k

Some research on the Toyota sludging problem suggests that the crankcase
vent system too restrictive and was compromised by extending oil change
intervals under hard driving conditions, the vent system became restricted
allowing vapors to be trapped in the crankcase causing more rapid formation
of oil contamination.
> wrote in message
om...
> In a recent post, I voiced my discontent with the way GM had handled the
> plenum
> failure problem in general, and mentioned it might be time to look at a
> Toyota.
>
> Someone (pardon for not remembering whom) posted that Toyota had also had
> problems with sludging engines, leading to failure in some instances.
>
> Drove the Toyota today. Wonderfully quiet, smooth, and responsive. Was
> really
> impressed.
>
> So I asked about the sludging problem while at the dealership. They
> confirmed it
> had happened and gave the reason that many people tried to run too long
> between
> oil changes. They said that the manual clearly called for oil and filter
> changes near
> the 3000 mile interval, but a lot of people tried to push oils to 7500 and
> more. And it
> just didnt work.
>
> This post covers several items, and comments are welcome.
>
>
>



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----