Who knew that MPG was in there somewhere? :)

Well - 2 weeks ago I got a speeding ticket with my '06 Vue for doing 78mph.
Where I live (LI) that's the average speed everyone does and it was just my
unlucky day to get singled out of the pack. I've been driving since 1987
and have never gotten a ticket before, so you figured he would have cut me a
break, but no - he had to be a dick about it. Anyway, my feelings on that
are not what the post is for. Here in NY, you can not accrue more than 11
points on your license in an 18 month period and that one ticket put 6
points on, meaning if I were to get an identical ticket within the next 18
months, I automatically would lose my license for 6 months.

That said, I put myself on my own probation and will not go over 60-65mph
as it's just not worth it to arrive 5 minutes earlier. The pluses of doing
so: A) get to use my cruise control as I'm the one everyone is passing now
and I don't have to keep slowing down. B) the most important: I went from
23mpg to 30mpg!!! 30mpg with a Vue....got to love it! (4cyl, 5-speed
stick, and yes - all my driving is highway)

IYM

Doesn't work that way on LI though...Very strange system. They set up
something here called a TVB (Traffic Violation Bureau) that is headed by the
DMV to keep the regular courts freed up. There is no plea bargaining...It's
either guilty or innocent. They have a 90% conviction rate. I've had a few
friends try to fight it and no one has ever won. This, even in a case where
he was picked up going 76 by radar. When he got to court, the cop presented
a calibration sheet for the radar gun that was outdated by 6 months. The
judge said that even though the gun was not calibrated and could have been
off a couple of MPH, the officer's judgment of the speed was what he was
trained for and that there was no way he could have been going the speed
limit, so he still got the ticket. This is as one sided of a system that
you can get and it's a pure money maker, that's all. Very unfair. You have
to show up to court with evidence to prove your innocence instead of the
officer trying to prove you guilty. All this and now as of 2 years ago, NYS
instituted a "Safe Driver" surcharge. If your license ever hits 6 points
you're automatically charged $300 + $25 for every point after. Because
this one first ticket of mine was for 6 points, my fine is: $90 ticket +
$50 surcharge (administrative fee) + $300 (safe driver surcharge) = $440 + 6
points on license + increased insurance premium (god only knows what that's
going to go up to)

It is a EXTREMELY unfair system, especially for a first time offender. The
only "Loophole" is that you plead "not guilty" and delay the date as long as
you can, then right before your date you can change your plea.. As the
points apply from the date of the incident, and not the date of conviction,
if you can drag the date 4-6 months, that 4-6 months of additional clean
license, less insurance and you already knocked that time off your 18 month
total. The cop ALWAYS shows up at court, as they have 2 times to get there.
You take a day off from work and the cop doesn't show, the date gets
rescheduled. As the cop gets paid overtime for court appearances, he is
always there one of the two times. Officers here make so much $$ and
benefits...

To see what I mean about the system:
http://www.tickethelp.com/traffic-vi...ns-bureau.html

To see what the cops salary and benefits:
http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/police/recruitment.htm

IYM



"Hang_Traitor_Democrats" >
wrote in message ...
> My suggestion. I have daughters who both have a heavy foot. Each ticket
> they have received I have taken to court.
>
> A good lawyer here charges $250 to $500 to handle a ticket. Also, get a
> lawyer who is of the same political party as most of the judges in your
> jurisdiction.
>
> What the lawyer typically does, and you can do this yourself if so
> inclined, is to get a couple of continuances and at some point you hope
> the copy does not show up. No witness, no prosecution.
>
> I have gotten the daughters out of four tickets this way. BTW, traffic
> tickets in most instances are just a tax and nothing more. It is revenue
> generation pure and simple.
>
> If more people or all people fought these in court, government would stop
> this nonsense for revenue generation. It ties up the courts, keeps the
> police from stopping REAL crime and just gets the citizens ticked off at
> the police.
>
> Please fight the ticket.
>
>
>
> IYM wrote:
>> Well - 2 weeks ago I got a speeding ticket with my '06 Vue for doing
>> 78mph. Where I live (LI) that's the average speed everyone does and it
>> was just my unlucky day to get singled out of the pack. I've been
>> driving since 1987 and have never gotten a ticket before, so you figured
>> he would have cut me a break, but no - he had to be a dick about it.
>> Anyway, my feelings on that are not what the post is for. Here in NY,
>> you can not accrue more than 11 points on your license in an 18 month
>> period and that one ticket put 6 points on, meaning if I were to get an
>> identical ticket within the next 18 months, I automatically would lose my
>> license for 6 months.
>>
>> That said, I put myself on my own probation and will not go over
>> 60-65mph as it's just not worth it to arrive 5 minutes earlier. The
>> pluses of doing so: A) get to use my cruise control as I'm the one
>> everyone is passing now and I don't have to keep slowing down. B) the
>> most important: I went from 23mpg to 30mpg!!! 30mpg with a Vue....got to
>> love it! (4cyl, 5-speed stick, and yes - all my driving is highway)
>>
>> IYM

"Hang_Traitor_Democrats" >
wrote in message ...
> My suggestion. I have daughters who both have a heavy foot. Each ticket
> they have received I have taken to court.
>
> A good lawyer here charges $250 to $500 to handle a ticket. Also, get a
> lawyer who is of the same political party as most of the judges in your
> jurisdiction.
>
> What the lawyer typically does, and you can do this yourself if so
> inclined, is to get a couple of continuances and at some point you hope
> the copy does not show up. No witness, no prosecution.
>
> I have gotten the daughters out of four tickets this way. BTW, traffic
> tickets in most instances are just a tax and nothing more. It is revenue
> generation pure and simple.
>
> If more people or all people fought these in court, government would stop
> this nonsense for revenue generation. It ties up the courts, keeps the
> police from stopping REAL crime and just gets the citizens ticked off at
> the police.
>
> Please fight the ticket.
>

Many years ago, right before Christmas, I got a ticket for passing a stopped
school bus ($200 at the time). I still maintain that I turned off the main
road before I overtook the bus. Am certain that it was just a money grab to
fund holiday bonuses since the cop listened to my explanation and said very
sorry but...wrote the ticket anyway.
A buddy with an uncle 'on the job' told me to send in the ticket requesting
a trial and requesting a deposition. By law (and I don't know if this is
still the case), a requested deposition has to be received no closer than 30
days before trial. Usually my city has long waits for traffic court cases
but this one came up in two weeks <BEG>
I go into court and wait for my case to be called. The cases prior to mine
make it very evident that this is the 'hanging judge' I am to appear before
<holy crap!!>
Finally they call my case, the cop is there and the judge starts. I ask if
the court is in possession of the requested deposition. Judge looks at his
papers, then at the bailiff and says, "was Mr. O. given his deposition when
he arrived in court." Bailiff looks flustered but comes over and hands me my
deposition. Judge starts again and I interrupt, "your honor, I was under the
impression that a requested deposition was to be received 30 days before
trial." Judge now looks extremely ****ed off and I figure that I had really
screwed up big time and was going to jail now. He looks down at his papers
and starts writing. Looks up at me with daggers in his eyes and says, to my
overwhelming relief, "case dismissed for untimely rendering of deposition."
I'd rather be proved right than pull a legal maneuver but this was the right
way to go.
Oppie

Hang_Traitor_Democrats wrote:
> My suggestion. I have daughters who both have a heavy foot. Each ticket
> they have received I have taken to court.
>
> A good lawyer here charges $250 to $500 to handle a ticket. Also, get a
> lawyer who is of the same political party as most of the judges in your
> jurisdiction.
>
> What the lawyer typically does, and you can do this yourself if so
> inclined, is to get a couple of continuances and at some point you hope
> the copy does not show up. No witness, no prosecution.
>
> I have gotten the daughters out of four tickets this way. BTW, traffic
> tickets in most instances are just a tax and nothing more. It is revenue
> generation pure and simple.
>
> If more people or all people fought these in court, government would
> stop this nonsense for revenue generation. It ties up the courts, keeps
> the police from stopping REAL crime and just gets the citizens ticked
> off at the police.

What happens here (Silicon Valley) with moving violations is very
different apparently then in your area, at least if it's a city police
force. Unlike the highway patrol, the cop will usually show up in court
(they get paid overtime for doing so), and there are no continuances,
lawyer or not. The cop will read a prepared statement from some index
cards (probably provided by a clerk in the police department). You will
be able to make a statement too, but the judge will not allow you to
introduce any evidence (photographs, etc). You will be found guilty, and
perhaps get a reduced fine, but lose your option for traffic school to
keep the ticket off your record.

The last time I went to traffic court, of all the appeals by people with
lawyers, I saw only one person succeed. He got out of an open container
ticket because he was in a private parking lot, not on a public street.
The cop needs to be really stupid to give a ticket that the judge won't
uphold.

However I agree with you that if everyone started fighting, they'd have
to change the system. Just be careful what you wish for though, as they
might find a way to change it for the worse.

Hang_Traitor_Democrats wrote:
> It is difficult to dispute what you are saying, but I find it hard to
> believe they do not allow continuances or permit evidence from being
> introduced. Those are basic trial rights.

I don't even know if there's a way to appeal. I don't really know about
continuances, so I shouldn't have said there are none, though I never
saw anyone try, and never saw a lawyer there without a client, asking
for a continuance. If the cop doesn't show you win, and if he does show,
you'd better be ready with your case. It's actually your second
appearance, because the first appearance is solely to plead guilty or
not guilty (really only not guilty, since if you're guilty you just pay
the fine and don't have to show up.

I foolishly tried to fight a speeding ticket once. I thought I had a
great case. The speed limit went from 45 MPH to 25 MPH and the cop hid
just past the 25 MPH sign, not even far enough for you to coast down to
a slower speed, you'd have to brake hard when you see the sign. I had
pictures of where the speed limit signs were, I had pictures of where
the cop was, but the judge wouldn't even look at them. Remember, it's
all collusion to extract money from you. I was on my way to the UPS
office, and I was talking to the clerk about the ticket, and she told me
that that motorcycle cop often got their customers and truck drivers for
speeding in that exact spot, until the drivers learn about the speed
trap. It's even on a web site about speed traps, and I didn't put it
there! "http://www.copspy.com/CA/444-sunnyvale.html"

> But then again, you are living in the Peoples' Republic of California.
>
> It's a tax. At least they allow you to go to traffic school to keep it
> off your record. We don't have that option here. You win, it is off your
> record, lose and it is on your record.

I think you can only go to traffic school once every two years. At least
you can take it online now.

Hang_Traitor_Democrats wrote:
> It is difficult to dispute what you are saying, but I find it hard to
> believe they do not allow continuances or permit evidence from being
> introduced. Those are basic trial rights.
>
> But then again, you are living in the Peoples' Republic of California.
>
Federal rights in criminal matters are very different issues than state procedures on civil issues. These things vary greatly state by state. Very greatly.

Way back when a friend in Toronto told me how many drunks they'd pickup for DWI would yell for their Miranda rights, 1 phone call, etc... The police would tell them they were watching the wrong TV shows and not paying attention when in grade school.

David

<IYM> turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> It is a EXTREMELY unfair system, especially for a first time offender.
> The only "Loophole" is that you plead "not guilty" and delay the date as
> long as
> you can, then right before your date you can change your plea.. As the
> points apply from the date of the incident, and not the date of
> conviction, if you can drag the date 4-6 months, that 4-6 months of
> additional clean license, less insurance and you already knocked that time
> off your 18 month
> total. The cop ALWAYS shows up at court, as they have 2 times to get
> there. You take a day off from work and the cop doesn't show, the date
> gets
> rescheduled. As the cop gets paid overtime for court appearances, he is
> always there one of the two times. Officers here make so much $$ and
> benefits...
>
<snip>

Yuck!

That is awful!!

Of the thre tickets I've had in the past 22 years, I've gone to court on two
of them. Both times, the officer didn't show up and the case was dismissed.
The third one was written down wrong as a fix-it ticket (I didn't have my
lights on.) and written off.

At last, a reason to like California. :P




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Hang_Traitor_Democrats wrote:
> To make sure we stay within the spirit of the newsgroup, I am sure
> everyone was driving a Saturn in the examples cited - right?

Well my son is getting a lesson in civics with his first ticket in his 98 SL2. $200 and 8 to 10 hours missing in his and my life.

David

On Wed, 07 May 2008 15:09:53 -0400, DLR >
wrote:

>Hang_Traitor_Democrats wrote:
>> It is difficult to dispute what you are saying, but I find it hard to
>> believe they do not allow continuances or permit evidence from being
>> introduced. Those are basic trial rights.
>>
>> But then again, you are living in the Peoples' Republic of California.
>>
>Federal rights in criminal matters are very different issues than state procedures on civil issues. These things vary greatly state by state. Very greatly.
>
>Way back when a friend in Toronto told me how many drunks they'd pickup for DWI would yell for their Miranda rights, 1 phone call, etc... The police would tell them they were watching the wrong TV shows and not paying attention when in grade school.
>
>David


The police are right in this case. Not having you Miranda rights read
to you is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. It just means that any
statements you might make are inadmissible as evidence. In many cases
the cops have enough evidence without your statement so they don't
give a rat's ass what you say and they don't bother to read you your
rights.

Hang_Traitor_Democrats turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> To make sure we stay within the spirit of the newsgroup, I am sure
> everyone was driving a Saturn in the examples cited - right?
>
> ;-)

What does that have to do with beer?



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