Thoughts on electric utilities

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 16:02:57 -0700, jim beam > wrote:

>On 11/03/2011 11:10 AM, C. E. White wrote:
>> I came across a utility company discussion of overhead vs underground power
>> lines. Very interesting..
>>
>> http://www.fpl.com/faqs/underground.shtml
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>
>"it costs FPL between $1,223 and $2,025 per lot to install our standard

Per lot. That means per adjacent or adjoining lot.

>overhead service. Underground on the other hand, costs between $1,685
>and $2,491 per lot."
>
>that's only 22% more to bury. not exactly prohibitive. and for the
>reliability alone, a no-brainer.

And that's why t hey DO bury power lines for new areas with adjoining
lots.



>but for quarter-on-quarter profitability, overhead is the way to go.
>maybe these guys should consider the additional cost of finance if they
>didn't enjoy their mandated monopoly status - that might change their
>minds.

On 11/3/2011 7:44 AM, C. E. White wrote:
> "jim > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 11/02/2011 03:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> http://wabcradio.com/news.asp?c=NEWY...http%3A%2F%2Fh
>> osted2.ap.org%2Fwabcam%2Fc9995d80566c485e95bc658f7 c655dd8%2FArticle_2
>> 011-11-02-Still%2520Wired%2Fid-af31fc3ad01444b7bbb382d50b8c7ea0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> or
>>>
>>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/3uqf46b
>>>
>>>
>>
>> jeepers, do we have to go through all this "repeat the old line that
>> keeps the farm cheap to run" b.s. again?
>>
>> "moving electrical wires below ground, where they'd be protected from
>> falling trees, is so expensive that it would likely send consumers'
>> electric bills sharply higher" we're told. yet residents of new
>> developments where the utilities are buried and who don't get blacked
>> out don't pay any more then those with overhead utilities who do. if
>> the expenses really are "sharply higher", why not?
>
> It is relatively inexpensive to layout and install an underground electrical
> distribution system in a new subdivison before / while the roads, water,
> sewer, gas lines, cable, telephone, etc. are being installed. Coming back 50
> years later and trying to weave the electrical wiring through the maze of
> other underground utilities is not so easy (or cheap). In some hard rock
> areas, burying high voltage power lines is impractical. And while overhead
> power lines are vulnerable to damage, it is also easy to diagnosis and
> repair the damage. Underground wiring is not invulnerable to damage. When it
> fails, finding the fault can be very time consuming. The cable used for
> underground wiring is also significantly more expensive becasue of
> insulation requirements. I believe the people running power companies are
> not complete idiots. If burying power lines was cost effective, I think they
> would bury them. But even today for power lines through sparcely populated
> areas, they build them above ground. Only in new sub-divisions do I
> routinely see them buried.
>
> ....
>
>> and the very premise of "the cost to underground all our facilities" is
>> completely bogus. you don't need to underground "all facilities", just
>> local distribution. high voltage grid distribution is well handled,
>> reliable and lives above ground perfectly well.
>>
>> in summary, it's a typical lightweight article by a journalist who knows
>> nothing about the technical aspects, who can't apply a little logic to
>> the usual "cost" argument, and who ultimately gets fobbed off with "too
>> busy to talk about this now". of course they're too busy to talk about
>> it now. and this utility won't talk about providing reliable power when
>> the lights are back on either. but we'll hear nothing from adam geller
>> then.
>>
>> oh, and should i mention "jobs for the boys" for the union workers that
>> get massive overtime repairing what they know will be the usual seasonal
>> outages in overhead distribution districts?
>
>
> My Mother worked for a power co-op for 50+ years. When were little, we often
> went in to work with her. I never once heard a lineman wish for bad wether
> so he could get overtime pay. I heard plenty worry about bad weather and
> express the hope that it didn't destroy the lines. I suppose after a bad
> weather event many enjoyed the overtime pay, but I doubt any of them would
> have wished for hurricanes or ice storms so they would get it. My Mother
> would spends days at the office after a storm answering calls from angry
> Customers and I never once heard her say she was grateful for the
> oppurtunity to make a few extra bucks.
>
> Ed
>
>

Pole work, night-time after an ice storm is miserable and nasty stuff.
The odds of getting hurt go way up. After the big spring storm here six
months ago, aside from a few critical repairs (mainly to get dropped
lines unheated so roads could be cleared), they would not even work
after dark. My neighborhood was without power for four days, mainly
because a quarter mile of poles along big road was GONE. I cheered the
night I came home and saw a row of bucket trucks planting new poles and
working in synch to raise new runs of cable to multiple poles at the
same time. They had borrowed and hired crews from every power company
and independent contractor in the surround couple hundred miles to deal
with this storm. Worst weather damage I have ever been in the middle of.
It'll be a year before all the damaged trees are fully cleaned up. I
still have a huge one in my backyard that my tree guy won't be able to
get to until graveyard behind me gets their back 40 cleared up and makes
him a road. (My only access is over a septic tank, and too narrow for a
big truck.)

--
aem sends....