Rack and Pinion failure

I recently took my 1996 Plymouth Grand Voyager in to Canadian Tire (Had to
use them as my mother was using her Canadian tire card to pay for the
repairs)
to have a new serpentine belt put on as the one on the van was coming apart
in pieces. I also noticed that there was power steering fluid leaking from
somewhere as well. I asked them to check it out for me. They said it needed
an engine shampoo to see the leak as there was so much oil around.After
shampooing they discovered that a piece of the belt has wrapped around the
shaft of the power steering pump and took out the seal.I gave them the go
ahead to fix the pump with a new pump. They said it would be 3.4 hours to
replace the pump as per the book value.I waited from 10:30 a.m. until 8:45
p.m. to get my van back.The tech was working on it for the whole time and
did not work on any other vehicles. As I was waiting for him to give me my
keys back he had the van still on the hoist double checking his work he
discovered a leak coming from the rack and pinion. This was not just a leak
but was gushing out of the seal area on the rack.This was not leaking at all
when it went into the shop and was not leaking when he checked out the power
steering system after the shampoo.

My question is this what could have caused the seal to blow in the rack and
pinion. The shop is not taking any responsibility for the leak and said that
it was just something that went on it's own. Is it possible that the new
pump was defective and caused a pressure build up high enough to blow out
the seal? The next day the store service manager called and said that he
investigated and stated that it was not the shops fault and it would cost me
another $700.00 to replace the rack with a new one. I needed my van and said
to go ahead under protest that they should be covering the cost as they
caused the rack to fail. When I went in to the shop the next day the tech's
where working on replacing the rack when they told me that they had to
replace the new power steering pump they put in the day before with a new
pump from the Chrysler Dealership as this pump was also leaking.

Are my suspicions right that the failure of the first pump caused the
failure of the rack and pinion.
Any insight would be very helpful and any ideas how to handle taking this
further would be very much appreciated.

Thanks for your help..

Tom.

P.S. My van is broke down in my yard because the new serpentine belt has
come off and the shop said that I would have to pay for the expense of the
towing the van to the shop and let them check it out to see if it was anyway
their fault that the belt came off. They said that snow build up was
probably the cause of the belt coming off and that they would not cover
putting the belt back on. The manager said I would have to pay for this as
well. My van was not driven in the snow as it was sitting in my driveway for
2 days during the blizzard we had. It was only after finished shovelling
that I started my van and tried to back out when I realised that I had no
power steering at all. When I looked in the engine compartment the belt was
laying there off the pulleys. There was no snow or ice build up inside the
engine compartment at all. I have owned this van for 4 years now and the
belt has never come off before at all. Kind of strange why it is now coming
off...?

SNIP

". I needed my van and said
> to go ahead under protest that they should be covering the cost as they
> caused the rack to fail. When I went in to the shop the next day the
> tech's
> where working on replacing the rack when they told me that they had to
> replace the new power steering pump they put in the day before with a new
> pump from the Chrysler Dealership as this pump was also leaking.
>
> Are my suspicions right that the failure of the first pump caused the
> failure of the rack and pinion.
> Any insight would be very helpful and any ideas how to handle taking this
> further would be very much appreciated.
>
> Thanks for your help..
>
> Tom.
>
Snip

Rack an pinion steering units fail due to the wear of the o-ring seals and
not changing the fluid every 30K miles and the o-ring seals fail due to not
changing the fluid every 30K miles. Back in the early 80s GM had real
problems with their units because the seals were harder than the aluminium
causing premature failure.

Many people expect just to put the key in their auto turn it and go. You
either pay me now or pay me later so to speak. It sounds like your later
has come.

HarryS

Sorry to say folks but I take great care in maintenance of my vehicle. If
all you want to do is put smart remarks then please don't respond. I came
here asking some questions about the possible causes for the failure of the
rack and pinion.I don't need or want to hear from the likes of people like
you.. If you can not help out with the technical advice I am seeking then
just sit back and don't open your mouths.

Snip

How do you know if that was the only leak. Sounds to me like you never took
care of the thing and are now surprised at the problems that developed. If
the engine was totally covered with p.s. fluid, there couldn't have been
much in the rack, or reservoir. So guess what! your seals will fail.

I have changed all the fluids in my van on a regularly scheduled period. So
" No " it was not because of neglect on my part for not maintaining my van.I
keep up with all the regular scheduled maintenance when it comes due.

"HarryS" > wrote in message
...
>
SNIP
>
> ". I needed my van and said
> > to go ahead under protest that they should be covering the cost as they
> > caused the rack to fail. When I went in to the shop the next day the
> > tech's
> > where working on replacing the rack when they told me that they had to
> > replace the new power steering pump they put in the day before with a
new
> > pump from the Chrysler Dealership as this pump was also leaking.
> >
> > Are my suspicions right that the failure of the first pump caused the
> > failure of the rack and pinion.
> > Any insight would be very helpful and any ideas how to handle taking
this
> > further would be very much appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks for your help..
> >
> > Tom.
> >
> Snip
>
> Rack an pinion steering units fail due to the wear of the o-ring seals and
> not changing the fluid every 30K miles and the o-ring seals fail due to
not
> changing the fluid every 30K miles. Back in the early 80s GM had real
> problems with their units because the seals were harder than the aluminium
> causing premature failure.
>
> Many people expect just to put the key in their auto turn it and go. You
> either pay me now or pay me later so to speak. It sounds like your later
> has come.
>
> HarryS
>
>

I had that experience - If it threw two belts off, I think you will need to
replace the tensioner bearing. If you look you may find the tensioner will
be riding a little out of alignment. If it's not that, then look at
everything else that the belt rides on and past. It's fairly simple
geometry. If it continues to throw the belt off then you should be very much
assured that one of the pullies somewhere is out of alignment or some object
is pushing it off.

Some times folks get mystified by cars, when they could probably reason
their way through a simple problem instead.

Thanks Joe for the input. The tensioner was checked out during the initial
check and was found to be in proper working order and alignment. The first
belt did not come off but had a stand fray off the belt and got caught up on
the shaft of the power steering pump.This was the original belt so I was not
surprised that it finally failed. As far as it taking out the pump that was
due to just plain bad old luck I guess....The main concern I have is why did
the rack and pinion fail. Was it because the pump was defective and caused
an over pressure situation because they had to even replace the pump they
had just installed because the pump had blown out its own seals as well.

Tom.


"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> I had that experience - If it threw two belts off, I think you will need
to
> replace the tensioner bearing. If you look you may find the tensioner will
> be riding a little out of alignment. If it's not that, then look at
> everything else that the belt rides on and past. It's fairly simple
> geometry. If it continues to throw the belt off then you should be very
much
> assured that one of the pullies somewhere is out of alignment or some
object
> is pushing it off.
>
> Some times folks get mystified by cars, when they could probably reason
> their way through a simple problem instead.
>
>

I am glad you are not an air craft mechanic if your idea of maintenance is
what you have previous described. I think you need to look up the word in
the dictionary for clarity.

HarryS



"Tom B" > wrote in message
news:RrjKd.52960$Qb.1439@edtnps89...
> Sorry to say folks but I take great care in maintenance of my vehicle. If
> all you want to do is put smart remarks then please don't respond. I came
> here asking some questions about the possible causes for the failure of
> the
> rack and pinion.I don't need or want to hear from the likes of people like
> you.. If you can not help out with the technical advice I am seeking then
> just sit back and don't open your mouths.
>
> Snip
>
> How do you know if that was the only leak. Sounds to me like you never
> took
> care of the thing and are now surprised at the problems that developed. If
> the engine was totally covered with p.s. fluid, there couldn't have been
> much in the rack, or reservoir. So guess what! your seals will fail.
>
> I have changed all the fluids in my van on a regularly scheduled period.
> So
> " No " it was not because of neglect on my part for not maintaining my
> van.I
> keep up with all the regular scheduled maintenance when it comes due.
>
> "HarryS" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
> SNIP
>>
>> ". I needed my van and said
>> > to go ahead under protest that they should be covering the cost as they
>> > caused the rack to fail. When I went in to the shop the next day the
>> > tech's
>> > where working on replacing the rack when they told me that they had to
>> > replace the new power steering pump they put in the day before with a
> new
>> > pump from the Chrysler Dealership as this pump was also leaking.
>> >
>> > Are my suspicions right that the failure of the first pump caused the
>> > failure of the rack and pinion.
>> > Any insight would be very helpful and any ideas how to handle taking
> this
>> > further would be very much appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your help..
>> >
>> > Tom.
>> >
>> Snip
>>
>> Rack an pinion steering units fail due to the wear of the o-ring seals
>> and
>> not changing the fluid every 30K miles and the o-ring seals fail due to
> not
>> changing the fluid every 30K miles. Back in the early 80s GM had real
>> problems with their units because the seals were harder than the
>> aluminium
>> causing premature failure.
>>
>> Many people expect just to put the key in their auto turn it and go. You
>> either pay me now or pay me later so to speak. It sounds like your later
>> has come.
>>
>> HarryS
>>
>>
>
>

"Tom B" > wrote in message
news:1ZkKd.51569$Ob.12796@edtnps84...
> Thanks Joe for the input. The tensioner was checked out during the initial
> check and was found to be in proper working order and alignment. The first
> belt did not come off but had a stand fray off the belt and got caught up
> on
> the shaft of the power steering pump.This was the original belt so I was
> not
> surprised that it finally failed. As far as it taking out the pump that
> was
> due to just plain bad old luck I guess....The main concern I have is why
> did
> the rack and pinion fail. Was it because the pump was defective and caused
> an over pressure situation because they had to even replace the pump they
> had just installed because the pump had blown out its own seals as well.
>
> Tom.
>
>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I had that experience - If it threw two belts off, I think you will need
> to
>> replace the tensioner bearing. If you look you may find the tensioner
>> will
>> be riding a little out of alignment. If it's not that, then look at
>> everything else that the belt rides on and past. It's fairly simple
>> geometry. If it continues to throw the belt off then you should be very
> much
>> assured that one of the pullies somewhere is out of alignment or some
> object
>> is pushing it off.
>>
>> Some times folks get mystified by cars, when they could probably reason
>> their way through a simple problem instead.
>>
>>
>
>
Exactly! As you state it was the original belt, and you waited till it
failed! that is not proper maintenance. And now you wonder you it is leking!

Lets wait until the belt frays before changing! great job!

David wrote:


>>
> Exactly! As you state it was the original belt, and you waited till it
> failed! that is not proper maintenance. And now you wonder you it is leking!

Are you even reading what he's saying?

"pawn, loathesome, credible" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
>
>
> >>
> > Exactly! As you state it was the original belt, and you waited till it
> > failed! that is not proper maintenance. And now you wonder you it is
leking!
>
> Are you even reading what he's saying?

Thank you David...I guess some people just can't read and only want to hear
themselves bitch off and complain about other people and what they do.I
thought this was a group where you could ask questions and get help on some
technical issues that a person has no knowledge of.

Again, Thanks alot

Tom