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#1
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Are my business assumptions correct?
I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money. However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be installed. For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works, I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income. Is this true? Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being honest? Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the profit they would have made on the parts? If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat. |
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#2
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On 4/2/2021 2:25 PM, micky wrote:
> Are my business assumptions correct? > > I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to > install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and > if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can > probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for > the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money. > > However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be > installed. > > For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works, > I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be > installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the > parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory > that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the > parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income. > > Is this true? > > Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being > honest? > > Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the > profit they would have made on the parts? > > If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked > by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be > tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip > almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the > paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat. > Depends on the shop. Is it one you've used before and know the owner? If so, good chance you can just tell him you wanted to put them in yourself and could not and need his help. An honest shop will charge you a fair rate for labor. |
#3
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micky > wrote:
> >I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to >install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and >if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can >probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for >the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money. What makes you think the oxygen sensors have anything to do with your problem? If you're getting errors saying that sensors are out of range, it might well be because they are accurately measuring an exhaust that is out of range. Especially if you're seeing more than one. >For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works, >I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be >installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the >parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory >that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the >parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income. > >Is this true? If you take O2 sensors to a shop and tell them to replace them, they will replace them. Depending on how they are feeling that day and if they like you, you may get a PIA charge for bringing in your own parts and being a pain in the ass. This means that if your problem is not bad sensors that you have just wasted a lot of money, both in the parts you bought unnecessarily and in the labour you paid them to do unnecessary work. Replacing the sensors could be trivial or it could be a major pain in the neck depending on how rusty things are and how well-kept things are. If the last person that changed the sensors used anti-seize, it will greatly reduce the work needed. But before I'd go swapping parts at random, I'd make sure that I knew what was actually wrong. A shop that is truly honest is likely to tell you they won't do any work without spending time on a proper diagnosis first. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
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![]() On Fri, 02 Apr 2021 14:25:42 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest... > > Are my business assumptions correct? > > I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to > install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and > if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can > probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for > the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money. > > However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be > installed. > > For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works, > I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be > installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the > parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory > that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the > parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income. > > Is this true? > > Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being > honest? > > Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the > profit they would have made on the parts? > > If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked > by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be > tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip > almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the > paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat. Depends on the shop. They make a small profit on parts. I am just giving the other side of the story... What happens if the parts you supply are incorrect, broken, poor quality, out of specs, what happens then? Are you sure the sensors are bad? Just asking. Maybe a bad cat or broken wires, misinterpretation of data. Use OEM or OEM supplier sensors or you may have another set of problems. They can be in REAL inaccessible places and tough to remove. It depends. Just like a lawyer would say: It depends. ![]() -- Tekkie |
#5
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![]() "micky" > wrote in message ... > Are my business assumptions correct? > > I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to > install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and > if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can > probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for > the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money. > > However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be > installed. > > For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works, > I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be > installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the > parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory > that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the > parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income. > > Is this true? It varys with the shop. > Is there a difference if the shop's owner > has a reputation for being honest? Not honest so much as operates that way. > Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job > and skip the profit they would have made on the parts? Some do, some don't. > If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be > irked by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, > I would be tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. If they had any sense they wouldn't because that would stuff their reputation if it went bad because they did that. But the worst of them don't care about stuff like that. > Or to skip almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, > or putting the paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat. That varys even when they supply the parts. |
#6
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micky > wrote
> Are my business assumptions correct? > > I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, > and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. Its very unlikely that more than one has failed. > I know I can install one of them, and > if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can > probably do the remaining 2 or 3. I'd prefer to do it myself mostly for > the satisfaction and bragging rights, but also to save money. > > However if I fail with 2 or 3 of them, I would take them to a shop to be > installed. > > For no special reason except that I think I know how the world works, > I've always felt that if I buy parts and bring them to a shop to be > installed, the owner will make up the loss in profits on selling the > parts with an increased charge for labor, or something, on the theory > that the job takes the same amount of time minus 10 minutes to order the > parts, and he shouldn't be deprived of the normal income. > > Is this true? > > Is there a difference if the shop's owner has a reputation for being > honest? > > Or do honest shops just charge the flat rate for the job and skip the > profit they would have made on the parts? > > If I were in their shoes and I felt obliged to do that, I would be irked > by a customer like I might turn out to be, and I might even, I would be > tempted to rush the job, potentially making a mistake. Or to skip > almost optional things like cleaning up great afterwards, or putting the > paper floor mat in front of the driver's seat. |
#7
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Rod Speed > wrote:
>micky > wrote > >> Are my business assumptions correct? >> >> I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, >> and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. > >Its very unlikely that more than one has failed. It's very unlikely any of them have failed. I cannot even count the number of times I have seen cars blowing black smoke out the tailpipe which have just got new oxygen sensors because the computer was throwing a code saying the sensor was out of range in the rich direction. The morons don't bother to figure out why it threw the code, they just swap out parts at random. They love swapping parts out. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#8
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micky wrote:
> Are my business assumptions correct? > > I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, and I need to > install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. I know I can install one of them, and > if I find a place where I can jack up the car and work underneath, I can > probably do the remaining 2 or 3. The time honored redneck method is to find a shallow ditch to drive the car onto. Then, there's room to crawl under it. In city ghettos, poor folks used to drive one side of the car over the curb, thus elevating the side you need to access. I (and my uncle) completely overhauled a 1957 plymouth using this technique. The lot was steeply sloping and that helped too. We replaced crank and rod bearings, pistons, rings, seals, etc. But, we did the valve job in the gravel driveway since it could be done from the top. Naturally, these are only options if the car is still in somewhat running condition, or you have lots of neighbors to push the clunker into position. |
#9
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On Sat, 3 Apr 2021 08:22:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: >> Is this true? > > It varys with the shop. So much wisdom again in one little senile head, eh, senile Rodent? More senile "wisdom" from the senile Australian bull**** artist: "Some things are much harder to do than others." MID: > LMAO -- addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent: "You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates his particular prowess at it every day." MID: > |
#10
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Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Rod Speed > wrote: >> micky > wrote >> >>> Are my business assumptions correct? >>> >>> I'm trying to get rid of some engine trouble codes, >>> and I need to install 2 or 4 oxygen sensors. >> >> Its very unlikely that more than one has failed. > > It's very unlikely any of them have failed. I cannot even count the number > of times I have seen cars blowing black smoke out the tailpipe which have > just got new oxygen sensors because the computer was throwing a code saying > the sensor was out of range in the rich direction. > > The morons don't bother to figure out why it threw the code, they just swap > out parts at random. They love swapping parts out. > --scott > When my truck had codes showing all four Oxygen sensors were suddenly bad, it indeed turned out that the damn computer itself had failed. The dealer installed a new ecu. It burned out within 2 blocks. They finally installed yet another, but also replaced all the wires to the O2 sensors. It's still running after 5 years now. This truck isn't used much, so I think the damn rats probably chewed up the wires. They ate all the original insulation around the battery too ![]() circuits. A **** poor electrical design I reckon. |
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