04 Rubicon

I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the back.
I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes in
the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member" and
bumper.


Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire Carrier
(719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson Classic Lock Wheels
Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch

Yamaha WR250ZF

Dave Milne > wrote:
: True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts onto
: the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
: underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
: metal the dignity of the name "cross member".

: Dave Milne, Scotland
: '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

: "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
: ...
:> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what the
:> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
:> really isn't very structural for a pull.
:>
:> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
:> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
:> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
:>
:> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
:> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
:> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than a
:> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
:>
:> My $0.02,
:>
:> Mike
:> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
:> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
substantial than most bumpers !

--
Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
"Jeff Hendron" > wrote in message
...
> I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
back.
> I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
in
> the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
and
> bumper.
>
>
> Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
Carrier
> (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
Classic Lock Wheels
> Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
>
> Yamaha WR250ZF
>
> Dave Milne > wrote:
> : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
onto
> : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
>
> : Dave Milne, Scotland
> : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> : "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> : ...
> :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
the
> :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> :>
> :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> :>
> :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
a
> :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> :>
> :> My $0.02,
> :>
> :> Mike
> :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
that turned out to be a tow strap, not a snatch strap so it came up
hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......

I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
spare tire carrier to it.

Mike

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> It's a good idea. The LandRover rear cross member is a massive channel
> section effort, which the rear PTO came through. It was a lot more
> substantial than most bumpers !
>
> --
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> "Jeff Hendron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I agree with the flimsy material they used across the frame rails in the
> back.
> > I had 1/4" steel cut the same size and shape as what is already back there
> > welded to the existing one and then have heavy angle bracing on both sides
> > where the frame rails meet the plate in the back. They use the two holes
> in
> > the frame near the back and two holes that go through the "cross member"
> and
> > bumper.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Hendron 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
> > MatrixOne Support Skyjacker 4" lift, JKS Disconnects
> > Agilent Technologies Fabtech Front Bumper, Rock Krusher Rear Bumper
> > Co Springs, Colorado Rock Krusher Rock Rails, Custom Swingout Tire
> Carrier
> > (719) 531-4319 33x12.50 Goodyear MTR's, Mickey Thompson
> Classic Lock Wheels
> > Bush Whacker Fender Flares, Warn XD9000i Winch
> >
> > Yamaha WR250ZF
> >
> > Dave Milne > wrote:
> > : True - the factory tow bar has substantial 1/4" angle bracing and bolts
> onto
> > : the frame in 6 places (two each side of the frame rails, and a bolt
> > : underneath each side). I wouldn't even give that pathetic piece of sheet
> > : metal the dignity of the name "cross member".
> >
> > : Dave Milne, Scotland
> > : '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> > : "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > : ...
> > :> Have you ever looked at how solid the bumper is bolted on or at what
> the
> > :> bumper is bolted on to??? Only a few bolts into a cross member that
> > :> really isn't very structural for a pull.
> > :>
> > :> For towing, you need the hitch bolted onto the frame or major angle
> > :> bracing to hold the cross member and bumper to the frame tails if you
> > :> want to have the bumper structurally sound for pulling.
> > :>
> > :> They correctly figure you are going to tear it off (stock bumpers with
> > :> bumper hitches get ripped off all the time in an extraction, it seldom
> > :> works out of mud) so figure it is safer to have a mud pit missile than
> a
> > :> trailer on the highway going it's own way.
> > :>
> > :> My $0.02,
> > :>
> > :> Mike
> > :> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > :> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Real Jeeps triangulate their frame for strength:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ationChart.gif
;-) Of course they were made to work, not just go to the mall:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ersatility.JPG
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
> that turned out to be a tow strap, not a snatch strap so it came up
> hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
> in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......
>
> I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
> spare tire carrier to it.
>
> Mike

Real Jeeps were made out of ****ty post war steel, and have a reputation for
cracking their frames. LandRover at least recognised this and made them out
of thicker steel... Have you tried drilling a hole in a TJ's frame ? Better
dig out your cobalt ... it may not be so thick, but it's really hard.

Dave Milne, Scotland
'91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Real Jeeps triangulate their frame for strength:
>
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ationChart.gif
> ;-) Of course they were made to work, not just go to the mall:
> http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ersatility.JPG
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> >
> > I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
> > that turned out to be a tow strap, not a snatch strap so it came up
> > hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
> > in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......
> >
> > I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
> > spare tire carrier to it.
> >
> > Mike

Not only were the CJ's frames not very thick, they were also 'C' channel
designs that weren't boxed. The TJ's boxed frame is a far stronger
boxed channel design made from heavier-gauge steel. Of course Bill will
invent some reason why a thinner-lighter gauge steel frame that isn't
fully boxed is stronger than a boxed-channel design with a heavier
gauges steel.

Dave Milne wrote:
> Real Jeeps were made out of ****ty post war steel, and have a reputation for
> cracking their frames. LandRover at least recognised this and made them out
> of thicker steel... Have you tried drilling a hole in a TJ's frame ? Better
> dig out your cobalt ... it may not be so thick, but it's really hard.
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
>
> "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Real Jeeps triangulate their frame for strength:
>>
>
> http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ationChart.gif
>
>>;-) Of course they were made to work, not just go to the mall:
>>http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ersatility.JPG
>> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/
>>
>>Mike Romain wrote:
>>
>>>I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
>>>that turned out to be a tow strap, not a snatch strap so it came up
>>>hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
>>>in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......
>>>
>>>I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
>>>spare tire carrier to it.
>>>
>>>Mike
>
>
>

--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Well I am not Bill, but when they changed from the C channel to the
double C or boxed frame on the CJ they screwed up big time.

The design is meant to flex like an open C can, when the boxed it they
all crack in front of the rear passenger spring and in back of the front
drivers spring. They also rot out bad from dirt and mud that collects
inside.

TJ's aren't old enough to be able to tell what time will..... YJ's
still rot out from collected crap bad like the CJ's...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Not only were the CJ's frames not very thick, they were also 'C' channel
> designs that weren't boxed. The TJ's boxed frame is a far stronger
> boxed channel design made from heavier-gauge steel. Of course Bill will
> invent some reason why a thinner-lighter gauge steel frame that isn't
> fully boxed is stronger than a boxed-channel design with a heavier
> gauges steel.
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > Real Jeeps were made out of ****ty post war steel, and have a reputation for
> > cracking their frames. LandRover at least recognised this and made them out
> > of thicker steel... Have you tried drilling a hole in a TJ's frame ? Better
> > dig out your cobalt ... it may not be so thick, but it's really hard.
> >
> > Dave Milne, Scotland
> > '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
> >
> > "L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >> Real Jeeps triangulate their frame for strength:
> >>
> >
> > http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ationChart.gif
> >
> >>;-) Of course they were made to work, not just go to the mall:
> >>http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Pho...ersatility.JPG
> >> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
> >>
> >>Mike Romain wrote:
> >>
> >>>I have to replace mine due to a pull with my bumper hitch and a strap
> >>>that turned out to be a tow strap, not a snatch strap so it came up
> >>>hard. Yanked the freaking cross member loose and it was only a YJ stuck
> >>>in a snow bank! Got bailing wire holding it on right now......
> >>>
> >>>I am going structurally strong with the cross member then I can add my
> >>>spare tire carrier to it.
> >>>
> >>>Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

Hi Mike,
And all commercial trucks like Real Jeeps still use the channel
frame for their strength and flexibility, and durability to surpass a
million miles are important:
http://www.truckertotrucker.com/listings/3073.htm click on end view to
confirm.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Well I am not Bill, but when they changed from the C channel to the
> double C or boxed frame on the CJ they screwed up big time.
>
> The design is meant to flex like an open C can, when the boxed it they
> all crack in front of the rear passenger spring and in back of the front
> drivers spring. They also rot out bad from dirt and mud that collects
> inside.
>
> TJ's aren't old enough to be able to tell what time will..... YJ's
> still rot out from collected crap bad like the CJ's...
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's