"new" engine doesn't start right?

Had a 1995 Mits. Galant 5-speed with 133K miles on it. A 2-year-old
balancer belt slipped somehow, got underneath the timing belt, and the
interference engine was trashed (valves bent, pistons damaged). A local
garage with a good reputation found a used engine with 66K miles on it.
They installed the used engine, new belts, new ignition system, rebuilt the
clutch, replaced the power steering pump (had been having intermittent
problems with it), "turned" the flywheel, and installed a new timing belt
tensioner.

It was delayed for 24 hours coming out of the shop because it refused to
start a couple of times, while still at the shop. I just got it out of the
shop, and it sounds like hell when I start it. It starts, but it almost
sounds like something is loose. The starter (?) makes a high whining noise
that I've never heard before. Right after the engine starts, there is a
momentary rattle sound, almost sounds like a loose exhaust heat shield.

I'm the original owner, the ONLY driver, it has been extremely well
maintained. It always started, first try. For me, anyway. With the
replacement engine, it seems to have trouble starting? The engine seems to
run well enough AFTER it starts.

Any ideas on what the mechanics messed up on? Something they forgot to
check?

Sounds to me like the only thing 'good' about the garage is how they are
at taking your money.....

Sorry man, but......

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

"Eric B." wrote:
>
> Had a 1995 Mits. Galant 5-speed with 133K miles on it. A 2-year-old
> balancer belt slipped somehow, got underneath the timing belt, and the
> interference engine was trashed (valves bent, pistons damaged). A local
> garage with a good reputation found a used engine with 66K miles on it.
> They installed the used engine, new belts, new ignition system, rebuilt the
> clutch, replaced the power steering pump (had been having intermittent
> problems with it), "turned" the flywheel, and installed a new timing belt
> tensioner.
>
> It was delayed for 24 hours coming out of the shop because it refused to
> start a couple of times, while still at the shop. I just got it out of the
> shop, and it sounds like hell when I start it. It starts, but it almost
> sounds like something is loose. The starter (?) makes a high whining noise
> that I've never heard before. Right after the engine starts, there is a
> momentary rattle sound, almost sounds like a loose exhaust heat shield.
>
> I'm the original owner, the ONLY driver, it has been extremely well
> maintained. It always started, first try. For me, anyway. With the
> replacement engine, it seems to have trouble starting? The engine seems to
> run well enough AFTER it starts.
>
> Any ideas on what the mechanics messed up on? Something they forgot to
> check?

So sarcasm aside, it sounds like they have no clue how to set a timing
or balance belt on that engine.

Hard start, odd sound in starter and rattle all could point to timing.

Mike

Mike Romain wrote:
>
> Sounds to me like the only thing 'good' about the garage is how they are
> at taking your money.....
>
> Sorry man, but......
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> "Eric B." wrote:
> >
> > Had a 1995 Mits. Galant 5-speed with 133K miles on it. A 2-year-old
> > balancer belt slipped somehow, got underneath the timing belt, and the
> > interference engine was trashed (valves bent, pistons damaged). A local
> > garage with a good reputation found a used engine with 66K miles on it.
> > They installed the used engine, new belts, new ignition system, rebuilt the
> > clutch, replaced the power steering pump (had been having intermittent
> > problems with it), "turned" the flywheel, and installed a new timing belt
> > tensioner.
> >
> > It was delayed for 24 hours coming out of the shop because it refused to
> > start a couple of times, while still at the shop. I just got it out of the
> > shop, and it sounds like hell when I start it. It starts, but it almost
> > sounds like something is loose. The starter (?) makes a high whining noise
> > that I've never heard before. Right after the engine starts, there is a
> > momentary rattle sound, almost sounds like a loose exhaust heat shield.
> >
> > I'm the original owner, the ONLY driver, it has been extremely well
> > maintained. It always started, first try. For me, anyway. With the
> > replacement engine, it seems to have trouble starting? The engine seems to
> > run well enough AFTER it starts.
> >
> > Any ideas on what the mechanics messed up on? Something they forgot to
> > check?

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> So sarcasm aside, it sounds like they have no clue how to set a timing
> or balance belt on that engine.
>
> Hard start, odd sound in starter and rattle all could point to timing.
>
> Mike
>


Well I just drove it again, and it ran extremely well. Still has a high
whining noise when starting, though. The way the car is geared, ~3500RPM is
a normal cruising speed for that engine. I took it up over 5 grand a couple
of times on hard acceleration (5-speed). It feels and sounds good while
running, has plenty of power. Seems to be pulling like it should. It's
just the start that sounds terrible. Last time I started it, I didn't hear
a rattle, but it still made a high whining noise. Could it be that the
timing is off? I would think that the engine wouldn't run very well if the
timing was off. But I'm not a mechanic.

Eric, it sounds almost as though the starter isn't properly installed.
Even if there are no shims/adjustments on this particular model, it can
still be boogered by a diligent idiot.

Could even be the ring gear coming loose on the flywheel (happens on
automatics and manuals, but is a rare event), or just a bad starter.

Dave

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Eric, it sounds almost as though the starter isn't properly installed.
> Even if there are no shims/adjustments on this particular model, it can
> still be boogered by a diligent idiot.
>
> Could even be the ring gear coming loose on the flywheel (happens on
> automatics and manuals, but is a rare event), or just a bad starter.
>
> Dave
>

I doubt if it's a bad starter. The starter never gave me even a hint of a
problem before the engine was replaced. If it is a bad starter, that would
be one helluva coincidence that it happened to go bad at the exact instant
that the engine was replaced. I'm pretty sure the starter on this thing
does have shims. After what you just told me, I'm starting to lean toward
starter not properly installed. I assume the starter would have had to be
pulled to replace the engine, right? Based on what I've observed and what
you just wrote, I'm betting the starter wasn't reinstalled correctly.

A side question . . . the shop turned the flywheel. I'm vaguely familiar
with the purpose of the flywheel, and wasn't aware that it could or should
be turned. But seeing as the flywheel was turned, could that have affected
the starting of the engine, somehow? And whether it does or not, why would
the flywheel need to be turned?

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:22:55 -0500, "Eric B." > wrote:

>
>"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
>> So sarcasm aside, it sounds like they have no clue how to set a timing
>> or balance belt on that engine.
>>
>> Hard start, odd sound in starter and rattle all could point to timing.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
>
>Well I just drove it again, and it ran extremely well. Still has a high
>whining noise when starting, though. The way the car is geared, ~3500RPM is
>a normal cruising speed for that engine. I took it up over 5 grand a couple
>of times on hard acceleration (5-speed). It feels and sounds good while
>running, has plenty of power. Seems to be pulling like it should. It's
>just the start that sounds terrible. Last time I started it, I didn't hear
>a rattle, but it still made a high whining noise. Could it be that the
>timing is off? I would think that the engine wouldn't run very well if the
>timing was off. But I'm not a mechanic.
>

Not familiar with your particular car, but, if the starter motor gear
doesn't disengage from the flywheel immediately after the engine
start, that could be what you're hearing...the starter motor being
over-revved by the flywheel until it disengages. Think starter
solenoid ass'y.

Lg

Eric B. wrote:
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > So sarcasm aside, it sounds like they have no clue how to set a timing
> > or balance belt on that engine.
> >
> > Hard start, odd sound in starter and rattle all could point to timing.
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
>
> Well I just drove it again, and it ran extremely well. Still has a high
> whining noise when starting, though. The way the car is geared, ~3500RPM is
> a normal cruising speed for that engine. I took it up over 5 grand a couple
> of times on hard acceleration (5-speed). It feels and sounds good while
> running, has plenty of power. Seems to be pulling like it should. It's
> just the start that sounds terrible. Last time I started it, I didn't hear
> a rattle, but it still made a high whining noise. Could it be that the
> timing is off? I would think that the engine wouldn't run very well if the
> timing was off. But I'm not a mechanic.

I have NO idea if a Mitsu is like this, but on a Chevy I would suspect
that the starter needs to be adjusted to mesh properly with the
flywheel. If there were shims in there and one got lost in the engine
swap, that could cause the starter pinion to mesh too far into the
teeth on the flywheel...

nate

> Not familiar with your particular car, but, if the starter motor gear
> doesn't disengage from the flywheel immediately after the engine
> start, that could be what you're hearing...the starter motor being
> over-revved by the flywheel until it disengages. Think starter
> solenoid ass'y.
>
> Lg
>

I thought of that, also. The wierd thing is, the high whining noise seems
to be before the engine actually fires. It's kind of like this, in
chronological order . . .

Clutch pedal to firewall, turn key, high whining noise for about 1/3rd to
1/2 second (total guess, but probably less than a second), engine fires
(sometimes rattles right at this point), engine idles fast at first (but
probably normal, it's fricking COLD out there), put car in gear, start
driving, engine feels and sounds great while driving.

The engine is a little "tighter" than I'm used to in that car, but that
could just be the cold weather. If it wasn't making such a sick whining
noise while starting, I'd be inclined to call it GOOD. They did a fantastic
job with the clutch, it feels better than it did when it was NEW. Of
course, the clutch freeplay was adjusted, so I've got to learn to drive it
again. Damn near stalled it the first time I went to move it. Then felt
stupid. (DUH, new clutch!)

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:15:25 -0500, "Eric B." > wrote:

>
>> Not familiar with your particular car, but, if the starter motor gear
>> doesn't disengage from the flywheel immediately after the engine
>> start, that could be what you're hearing...the starter motor being
>> over-revved by the flywheel until it disengages. Think starter
>> solenoid ass'y.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
>I thought of that, also. The wierd thing is, the high whining noise seems
>to be before the engine actually fires. It's kind of like this, in
>chronological order . . .

================================================== ============
>Clutch pedal to firewall, turn key, high whining noise for about 1/3rd to
>1/2 second (total guess, but probably less than a second), engine fires

That's your starter motor alright. Something not right about it, or
the way it was installed, as nate suggested.

Lg





>(sometimes rattles right at this point), engine idles fast at first (but
>probably normal, it's fricking COLD out there), put car in gear, start
>driving, engine feels and sounds great while driving.
>
>The engine is a little "tighter" than I'm used to in that car, but that
>could just be the cold weather. If it wasn't making such a sick whining
>noise while starting, I'd be inclined to call it GOOD. They did a fantastic
>job with the clutch, it feels better than it did when it was NEW. Of
>course, the clutch freeplay was adjusted, so I've got to learn to drive it
>again. Damn near stalled it the first time I went to move it. Then felt
>stupid. (DUH, new clutch!)
>
>