5 Speed synchronizer question

I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to notice
that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes have to tug
on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to gather data on
this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and smooth and the
next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I notice that if I
push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it appears to come out
easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly [3rd and 5th] and
does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a problem coming out,
could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil fluid level is full
and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of resistance going into
3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice would help. This transaxle
has 140000 miles on it and has never given me a problem.

mbjj wrote:
> I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to notice
> that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes have to tug
> on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to gather data on
> this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and smooth and the
> next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I notice that if I
> push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it appears to come out
> easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly [3rd and 5th] and
> does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a problem coming out,
> could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil fluid level is full
> and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of resistance going into
> 3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice would help. This transaxle
> has 140000 miles on it and has never given me a problem.

sounds like your clutch is not disengaging completely

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

In article . net>,
mbjj > wrote:

> I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to notice
> that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes have to tug
> on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to gather data on
> this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and smooth and the
> next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I notice that if I
> push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it appears to come out
> easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly [3rd and 5th] and
> does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a problem coming out,
> could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil fluid level is full
> and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of resistance going into
> 3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice would help. This transaxle
> has 140000 miles on it and has never given me a problem.

When's the last time you checked the clutch fluid level/cable tension?
Sounds to me more like a clutch that's not quite disengaging than a
synchro problem from your information so far - especially the comment
about "if I push the clutch pedal firmly to the floor..."

A bum clutch could give you exactly the described symptoms. (and be a
good bit cheaper to deal with than needing new synchros)

140K is a pretty good run for a clutch - especially on a "disposable"
car like a Metro.

--
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or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info

Don Bruder wrote:

> In article . net>,
> mbjj > wrote:
>
>> I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to notice
>> that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes have to tug
>> on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to gather data on
>> this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and smooth and the
>> next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I notice that if I
>> push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it appears to come out
>> easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly [3rd and 5th] and
>> does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a problem coming out,
>> could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil fluid level is full
>> and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of resistance going into
>> 3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice would help. This transaxle
>> has 140000 miles on it and has never given me a problem.
>
> When's the last time you checked the clutch fluid level/cable tension?
> Sounds to me more like a clutch that's not quite disengaging than a
> synchro problem from your information so far - especially the comment
> about "if I push the clutch pedal firmly to the floor..."
>
> A bum clutch could give you exactly the described symptoms. (and be a
> good bit cheaper to deal with than needing new synchros)
>
> 140K is a pretty good run for a clutch - especially on a "disposable"
> car like a Metro.
>
The clutch is cable driven and I adjusted it about to the end of its
throw. I have 3 or 4 more threads showing on the adjuster nut and then
it will be bottomed out. As for the clutch itself I replaced it about
30,000 miles ago when I swapped out the engine. Unless my son was
riding it when he had it for a year or so there isn't that many miles
on it. You think it's more of an adjustment than it is a syncro problem?

Don Bruder wrote:

> In article . net>,
> mbjj > wrote:
>
>> I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to notice
>> that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes have to tug
>> on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to gather data on
>> this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and smooth and the
>> next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I notice that if I
>> push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it appears to come out
>> easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly [3rd and 5th] and
>> does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a problem coming out,
>> could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil fluid level is full
>> and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of resistance going into
>> 3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice would help. This transaxle
>> has 140000 miles on it and has never given me a problem.
>
> When's the last time you checked the clutch fluid level/cable tension?
> Sounds to me more like a clutch that's not quite disengaging than a
> synchro problem from your information so far - especially the comment
> about "if I push the clutch pedal firmly to the floor..."
>
> A bum clutch could give you exactly the described symptoms. (and be a
> good bit cheaper to deal with than needing new synchros)
>
> 140K is a pretty good run for a clutch - especially on a "disposable"
> car like a Metro.
>
Another thought. If it is related to the cable/clutch then why am I only
experiencing it in 3rd and 5th gear?

mbjj wrote:
> Don Bruder wrote:
>
>
>>In article . net>,
>> mbjj > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to notice
>>>that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes have to tug
>>>on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to gather data on
>>>this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and smooth and the
>>>next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I notice that if I
>>>push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it appears to come out
>>>easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly [3rd and 5th] and
>>>does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a problem coming out,
>>>could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil fluid level is full
>>>and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of resistance going into
>>>3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice would help. This transaxle
>>>has 140000 miles on it and has never given me a problem.
>>
>>When's the last time you checked the clutch fluid level/cable tension?
>>Sounds to me more like a clutch that's not quite disengaging than a
>>synchro problem from your information so far - especially the comment
>>about "if I push the clutch pedal firmly to the floor..."
>>
>>A bum clutch could give you exactly the described symptoms. (and be a
>>good bit cheaper to deal with than needing new synchros)
>>
>>140K is a pretty good run for a clutch - especially on a "disposable"
>>car like a Metro.
>>
>
> The clutch is cable driven and I adjusted it about to the end of its
> throw. I have 3 or 4 more threads showing on the adjuster nut and then
> it will be bottomed out. As for the clutch itself I replaced it about
> 30,000 miles ago when I swapped out the engine. Unless my son was
> riding it when he had it for a year or so there isn't that many miles
> on it. You think it's more of an adjustment than it is a syncro problem?
>

How much fre eplay does the clutch pedal have currently?

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:

> mbjj wrote:
>> Don Bruder wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article . net>,
>>> mbjj > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to
>>>>notice that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes
>>>>have to tug on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to
>>>>gather data on this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and
>>>>smooth and the next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I
>>>>notice that if I push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it
>>>>appears to come out easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly
>>>>[3rd and 5th] and does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a
>>>>problem coming out, could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil
>>>>fluid level is full and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of
>>>>resistance going into 3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice
>>>>would help. This transaxle has 140000 miles on it and has never given me
>>>>a problem.
>>>
>>>When's the last time you checked the clutch fluid level/cable tension?
>>>Sounds to me more like a clutch that's not quite disengaging than a
>>>synchro problem from your information so far - especially the comment
>>>about "if I push the clutch pedal firmly to the floor..."
>>>
>>>A bum clutch could give you exactly the described symptoms. (and be a
>>>good bit cheaper to deal with than needing new synchros)
>>>
>>>140K is a pretty good run for a clutch - especially on a "disposable"
>>>car like a Metro.
>>>
>>
>> The clutch is cable driven and I adjusted it about to the end of its
>> throw. I have 3 or 4 more threads showing on the adjuster nut and then
>> it will be bottomed out. As for the clutch itself I replaced it about
>> 30,000 miles ago when I swapped out the engine. Unless my son was
>> riding it when he had it for a year or so there isn't that many miles
>> on it. You think it's more of an adjustment than it is a syncro problem?
>>
>
> How much fre eplay does the clutch pedal have currently?
>
> nate
>
None. I adjusted it all out. I plan on backing it all off tomorrow to
see what that does.

Nate Nagel wrote:

> mbjj wrote:
>> I have a 97 metro 5 speed 1.0L and it runs fine. I am beginning to notice
>> that whenever I downshift out of 3rd and 5th that I sometimes have to tug
>> on the shifter to get it out of gear. I am still trying to gather data on
>> this but it seems like one time it will come out nice and smooth and the
>> next I get some resistance getting it out of gear. I notice that if I
>> push the clutch pedal firmly on the floor that it appears to come out
>> easier. My question is if it goes into gear smoothly [3rd and 5th] and
>> does not "rake" the gears going in and it gives me a problem coming out,
>> could it be a synchronizer problem? The gear oil fluid level is full
>> and I think I can say that I noticed a tad bit of resistance going into
>> 3rd and 5th on the drive back home. Any advice would help. This transaxle
>> has 140000 miles on it and has never given me a problem.
>
> sounds like your clutch is not disengaging completely
>
> nate
>
It was out of adjustment. When I backed the adjuster off to
get free play again it all fell into place. Now I have to
watch it to see how much the misadjustment over time has
shortened the clutch life. My thanks to you and everyone else
that responded.

mbjj