"The Sun Never Sets on GM's Automotive Talent"

"dr_jeff" > wrote in message
...
> Ignacio Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
> <...>
>
>>> I am still amazed at the Cadillac CTS.... it is the first really good
>>> car
>>> they've made in ages. It's a Cadillac but it actually drives and rides
>>> like a real car; you can tell there is road underneath you. It's smooth
>>> but it's not totally decoupled from the road. Folks who drive it like
>>> it.
>>
>> They don't know any better.
>
> Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes as you. Just because you
> don't like GM cars (I don't either) doesn't mean that they don't build
> good products. Likewise, people who like the CTS know quality. They have
> different taste than you, but not everyone has the same taste.
>

Take a look at consumer reports and compare the reliability of the Japanese
vehicles to the American vehicles. I am not talking first six months but
3-4 years down the line. I am not spending $50k on a Cadillac CTS just to
replace it within 3 years when I can spend the same amount of money and keep
my Japanese vehicle for 10 years!


> People besides Toyota build good cars. Get over it.
>
> Jeff

Ignacio Shagnasty wrote:
>
>
> "dr_jeff" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ignacio Shagnasty wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>> <...>
>>
>>>> I am still amazed at the Cadillac CTS.... it is the first really
>>>> good car
>>>> they've made in ages. It's a Cadillac but it actually drives and rides
>>>> like a real car; you can tell there is road underneath you. It's
>>>> smooth
>>>> but it's not totally decoupled from the road. Folks who drive it
>>>> like it.
>>>
>>> They don't know any better.
>>
>> Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes as you. Just because you
>> don't like GM cars (I don't either) doesn't mean that they don't build
>> good products. Likewise, people who like the CTS know quality. They
>> have different taste than you, but not everyone has the same taste.
>>
>
> Take a look at consumer reports and compare the reliability of the
> Japanese vehicles to the American vehicles. I am not talking first six
> months but 3-4 years down the line. I am not spending $50k on a
> Cadillac CTS just to replace it within 3 years when I can spend the same
> amount of money and keep my Japanese vehicle for 10 years!

I did not say that GM is great at implementing what their automotive
talent engineers and designs, rather, that they have good talent. IMHO,
I don't think that GM makes many cars that I would want. However, a lot
of people disagree with me about that. My point is that GM has good
automotive talent, and makes some good cars, both here and abroad.

I also don't like the things that come with GM cars, like their Onstar
system (I don't like XM satalite either, but I have it with my car). I
just don't like their designs or implementation. But that's just me.
Other people who have different tastes obviously love the cars. And more
people bought their trucks over the last few years than anyone else.

Jeff

>> People besides Toyota build good cars. Get over it.
>>
>> Jeff
>

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> dr_jeff > wrote:
>> Title was correct before. GM has a lot of automotive talent. Sadly, it
>> has been shown a lot lately in the US. But they do have it, espeically
>> in the market where they sell the most cars: China.
>
> GM gets great ideas, then they don't follow through with them. A good
> example was the Northstar System... great engine design, just had a few
> minor problems that had some pretty severe consequences. Did they ECO
> everything and make it right? They did not. They ignored them.
>
> I am still amazed at the Cadillac CTS.... it is the first really good car
> they've made in ages. It's a Cadillac but it actually drives and rides
> like a real car; you can tell there is road underneath you. It's smooth
> but it's not totally decoupled from the road. Folks who drive it like it.
> So what did GM do? Did they promote the design team and put them in charge
> of the rest of the GM line? They did not. They laid them off.
>
> Sheesh. GM.
> --scott
>

A few other bad choices, in my eyes anyways.

Pontiac Fiero V-6. Killed off.

Buick Grand National. Killed off.

GMC Syclone and Typhoon. Killed off.

Impala SS RWD in the 90's. Killed off.

Camaro. Temporarily killed off.

IIRC, all of the above were popular, but probably not enough volume in
sales, except for the ones they didn't build enough in the first place.

Try to buy any of the first three in good shape now. Bring lots of money.


--
Steve Walker
(remove wallet to reply)

--
Steve Walker
(remove wallet to reply)

"dr_jeff" > wrote in message
...
> Ignacio Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>
>> "dr_jeff" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Ignacio Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> <...>
>>>
>>>>> I am still amazed at the Cadillac CTS.... it is the first really good
>>>>> car
>>>>> they've made in ages. It's a Cadillac but it actually drives and
>>>>> rides
>>>>> like a real car; you can tell there is road underneath you. It's
>>>>> smooth
>>>>> but it's not totally decoupled from the road. Folks who drive it like
>>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> They don't know any better.
>>>
>>> Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes as you. Just because you
>>> don't like GM cars (I don't either) doesn't mean that they don't build
>>> good products. Likewise, people who like the CTS know quality. They have
>>> different taste than you, but not everyone has the same taste.
>>>
>>
>> Take a look at consumer reports and compare the reliability of the
>> Japanese vehicles to the American vehicles. I am not talking first six
>> months but 3-4 years down the line. I am not spending $50k on a Cadillac
>> CTS just to replace it within 3 years when I can spend the same amount of
>> money and keep my Japanese vehicle for 10 years!
>
> I did not say that GM is great at implementing what their automotive
> talent engineers and designs, rather, that they have good talent. IMHO, I
> don't think that GM makes many cars that I would want. However, a lot of
> people disagree with me about that. My point is that GM has good
> automotive talent, and makes some good cars, both here and abroad.
>
> I also don't like the things that come with GM cars, like their Onstar
> system (I don't like XM satalite either, but I have it with my car). I
> just don't like their designs or implementation. But that's just me. Other
> people who have different tastes obviously love the cars. And more people
> bought their trucks over the last few years than anyone else.
>
> Jeff

Now you're talking. GM might have good talent but they certainly have a lot
to learn about using it. They are so set in their ways, it will take them
years to change. A company that large moves very slow and if they don't
change quickly then they may be back in the same POT they were in two years
ago. I dislike the boxy design of the CTS and the cockpit looks cheap for a
very expensive car.

GM is certainly getting better but still has a long way to go and the
American people will take some time to come around. Of course others love
GM, Ford, and a few even like Chrysler but that's what makes the world go
round. I have XM in my car and like it because there are no commercials on
some channels. I have friends who would never get XM because they can get
FREE radio. Different strokes.

I had a Ford Bronco many years ago and it was in the shop constantly. I had
oil leaks, electrical problems and issues that I have put out of my mind.
During the last 2 months of warranty, I took the car in because of problems.
Ford said they were fixed but they were not. To make a long story short, I
sued Ford because they refused to correct the problems they caused while the
vehicle was in warranty and I won my case.

Since then I've had Japanese vehicles and have never been happier. The
Japanese cars just run and run. No major problems and just regular
maintenance. Money well spent.

Steve Walker > wrote in
:

> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> dr_jeff > wrote:
>>> Title was correct before. GM has a lot of automotive talent. Sadly,
>>> it has been shown a lot lately in the US. But they do have it,
>>> espeically in the market where they sell the most cars: China.
>>
>> GM gets great ideas, then they don't follow through with them. A
>> good example was the Northstar System... great engine design, just
>> had a few minor problems that had some pretty severe consequences.
>> Did they ECO everything and make it right? They did not. They
>> ignored them.
>>
>> I am still amazed at the Cadillac CTS.... it is the first really good
>> car they've made in ages. It's a Cadillac but it actually drives and
>> rides like a real car; you can tell there is road underneath you.
>> It's smooth but it's not totally decoupled from the road. Folks who
>> drive it like it. So what did GM do? Did they promote the design
>> team and put them in charge of the rest of the GM line? They did
>> not. They laid them off.
>>
>> Sheesh. GM.
>> --scott
>>
>
> A few other bad choices, in my eyes anyways.
>
> Pontiac Fiero V-6. Killed off.
>
That one bugs me the most. A mid engined car that could have doubled
their popularity with the sports car crowd.


--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

On 08/16/2010 12:08 PM, dr_jeff wrote:
> Ignacio Shagnasty wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
> <...>
>
>>> I am still amazed at the Cadillac CTS.... it is the first really good
>>> car
>>> they've made in ages. It's a Cadillac but it actually drives and rides
>>> like a real car; you can tell there is road underneath you. It's smooth
>>> but it's not totally decoupled from the road. Folks who drive it like
>>> it.
>>
>> They don't know any better.
>
> Not everyone has the same likes and dislikes as you. Just because you
> don't like GM cars (I don't either) doesn't mean that they don't build
> good products. Likewise, people who like the CTS know quality. They have
> different taste than you, but not everyone has the same taste.
>
> People besides Toyota build good cars. Get over it.
>
> Jeff

here's a clue about whether someone knows what they're talking about or
not - you know they don't when they try to defend g.m. "quality".

reality is, there's not a single component on a g.m. vehicle that's not
the cheapest crap it's possible to buy. and if even that cheap crap
isn't cheap enough and crappy enough for it to fail inside the design
mileage, they'll sabotage it so it will. cast iron crank shafts? got
it. micro-thin carburizing on the cam shaft? check. "v6" made from a
truncated v8, without even bothering to re-time the crank? all over it.
plastic coolant pump impellers? got the tee-shirt...

the list is long and cringe-worthy. i guess trying to defend the
indefensible is the kind of self-delusion and ignorance that is the very
meat of usenet, but why do they do it?


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 08/16/2010 01:35 PM, chuckcar wrote:
> Steve > wrote in
> :
>
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> > wrote:
>>>> Title was correct before. GM has a lot of automotive talent. Sadly,
>>>> it has been shown a lot lately in the US. But they do have it,
>>>> espeically in the market where they sell the most cars: China.
>>>
>>> GM gets great ideas, then they don't follow through with them. A
>>> good example was the Northstar System... great engine design, just
>>> had a few minor problems that had some pretty severe consequences.
>>> Did they ECO everything and make it right? They did not. They
>>> ignored them.
>>>
>>> I am still amazed at the Cadillac CTS.... it is the first really good
>>> car they've made in ages. It's a Cadillac but it actually drives and
>>> rides like a real car; you can tell there is road underneath you.
>>> It's smooth but it's not totally decoupled from the road. Folks who
>>> drive it like it. So what did GM do? Did they promote the design
>>> team and put them in charge of the rest of the GM line? They did
>>> not. They laid them off.
>>>
>>> Sheesh. GM.
>>> --scott
>>>
>>
>> A few other bad choices, in my eyes anyways.
>>
>> Pontiac Fiero V-6. Killed off.
>>
> That one bugs me the most. A mid engined car that could have doubled
> their popularity with the sports car crowd.
>
>

"could have"??? it "could have" if it actually ran you mean. but like
all typical g.m. crap, it didn't.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

"The Sun Never Sets on GM's Automotive Talent" Options

Just another way to say that they have outsourced the back office.