serpentine belt ('87 YJ)

hey all - '87 YJ w/PS and AC (non-working)... water pump been going bad
for a few weeks and is now on its last legs - went to replace it today
with the less than helpful Haynes manual as a general guide and ran
into what seems to be a common problem - i was unable to loosen the
serpentine belt. now i was attempting to loosen the alternator but
after breaking every rusted old bolt loose on the damn thing it still
wouldnt budge - looking at it only confused me further because altho
there were clearly adjustment holes in the alternator bracket there
doesnt appear to be any way to actually pivot the alternator! i just
did a quick search on this in the list and found numerous references to
similiar problems with the answer being that one must use an adjusting
bolt on the back of the POWER STEERING PUMP bracket...
but - since all of these posts were for much later model vehicles than
mine i'd love a confirmation. i just cant bear to go out and look
around under the hood right now. i was ready to set fire to the damn
thing today after about 1.5 hours of hot sweaty dirty frustration...

so - belt is slackened and adjusted via the power steering pump
bracket?
gotta love that haynes manual: "slacken belt by loosening alternator
bracket pivot bolts - see section XXXX." which turns out to be two
extremely difficult to read photos and about a sentence.

maybe i'll just burn the book instead.

-bennett

P.S. The AC is still all connected - it even blows when you turn it on
- just not cold air. good thing i live in Minnesota. :/

There is an adjuster bolt on the power steering pump bracket that tightens
the belt on later model 4.0L's. I would guess it's the same on the 4.2L. Are
you going to replace the belt at the same time?

Check out www.autozone.com , they have free repair guides. If one for your
Jeep doesn't come up, look at the one for a 90's Cherokee. It should be the
same.


HTH

Carl

"bobvonbob" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> hey all - '87 YJ w/PS and AC (non-working)... water pump been going bad
> for a few weeks and is now on its last legs - went to replace it today
> with the less than helpful Haynes manual as a general guide and ran
> into what seems to be a common problem - i was unable to loosen the
> serpentine belt. now i was attempting to loosen the alternator but
> after breaking every rusted old bolt loose on the damn thing it still
> wouldnt budge - looking at it only confused me further because altho
> there were clearly adjustment holes in the alternator bracket there
> doesnt appear to be any way to actually pivot the alternator! i just
> did a quick search on this in the list and found numerous references to
> similiar problems with the answer being that one must use an adjusting
> bolt on the back of the POWER STEERING PUMP bracket...
> but - since all of these posts were for much later model vehicles than
> mine i'd love a confirmation. i just cant bear to go out and look
> around under the hood right now. i was ready to set fire to the damn
> thing today after about 1.5 hours of hot sweaty dirty frustration...
>
> so - belt is slackened and adjusted via the power steering pump
> bracket?
> gotta love that haynes manual: "slacken belt by loosening alternator
> bracket pivot bolts - see section XXXX." which turns out to be two
> extremely difficult to read photos and about a sentence.
>
> maybe i'll just burn the book instead.
>
> -bennett
>
> P.S. The AC is still all connected - it even blows when you turn it on
> - just not cold air. good thing i live in Minnesota. :/
>

Hi Bennett,
Loosen the idler pulley, then adjuster:
http://www.billhughes.com/serpenti.jpg
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O


bobvonbob wrote:
>
> hey all - '87 YJ w/PS and AC (non-working)... water pump been going bad
> for a few weeks and is now on its last legs - went to replace it today
> with the less than helpful Haynes manual as a general guide and ran
> into what seems to be a common problem - i was unable to loosen the
> serpentine belt. now i was attempting to loosen the alternator but
> after breaking every rusted old bolt loose on the damn thing it still
> wouldnt budge - looking at it only confused me further because altho
> there were clearly adjustment holes in the alternator bracket there
> doesnt appear to be any way to actually pivot the alternator! i just
> did a quick search on this in the list and found numerous references to
> similiar problems with the answer being that one must use an adjusting
> bolt on the back of the POWER STEERING PUMP bracket...
> but - since all of these posts were for much later model vehicles than
> mine i'd love a confirmation. i just cant bear to go out and look
> around under the hood right now. i was ready to set fire to the damn
> thing today after about 1.5 hours of hot sweaty dirty frustration...
>
> so - belt is slackened and adjusted via the power steering pump
> bracket?
> gotta love that haynes manual: "slacken belt by loosening alternator
> bracket pivot bolts - see section XXXX." which turns out to be two
> extremely difficult to read photos and about a sentence.
>
> maybe i'll just burn the book instead.
>
> -bennett
>
> P.S. The AC is still all connected - it even blows when you turn it on
> - just not cold air. good thing i live in Minnesota. :/

Well, you have the odd ball 4.2 with the long belt. The manual is
referring to the V-belt engine, not yours.

You need to loosen the PS pump pivots and the bottom lock nut to loosen
a long set screw in the right hand side of the PS pump to loosen the
belt.

BUT! Why bother? I never loosen the belts when changing a waterpump.
I just pull out the pump and put the new one back in. The belt will
just go back to the same tightness it was before.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

bobvonbob wrote:
>
> hey all - '87 YJ w/PS and AC (non-working)... water pump been going bad
> for a few weeks and is now on its last legs - went to replace it today
> with the less than helpful Haynes manual as a general guide and ran
> into what seems to be a common problem - i was unable to loosen the
> serpentine belt. now i was attempting to loosen the alternator but
> after breaking every rusted old bolt loose on the damn thing it still
> wouldnt budge - looking at it only confused me further because altho
> there were clearly adjustment holes in the alternator bracket there
> doesnt appear to be any way to actually pivot the alternator! i just
> did a quick search on this in the list and found numerous references to
> similiar problems with the answer being that one must use an adjusting
> bolt on the back of the POWER STEERING PUMP bracket...
> but - since all of these posts were for much later model vehicles than
> mine i'd love a confirmation. i just cant bear to go out and look
> around under the hood right now. i was ready to set fire to the damn
> thing today after about 1.5 hours of hot sweaty dirty frustration...
>
> so - belt is slackened and adjusted via the power steering pump
> bracket?
> gotta love that haynes manual: "slacken belt by loosening alternator
> bracket pivot bolts - see section XXXX." which turns out to be two
> extremely difficult to read photos and about a sentence.
>
> maybe i'll just burn the book instead.
>
> -bennett
>
> P.S. The AC is still all connected - it even blows when you turn it on
> - just not cold air. good thing i live in Minnesota. :/

thanks all - as usual i appreciate the help. bill - i looked at your
diagram but i think my set up is a bit different - i'm sure i dont have
two idler pullys - possibly one... i have to look underneath the power
steering pump and see.
mike - i'd love to not bother with the belt unfortunately i dont think
this belt has EVER been changed - its thouroughly cracked and this
seems like a good a time as any to change it.
one more question - i noticed that yesterday - after i had loosened all
the alternator bolts and pounded and pried on it for a while before
giving up and tightening all the bolts down again - i went for a drive
and noticed that my alternator output is lower - only about 12.75-13V -
down from about 14. hopefully only because the belt was loosened a
little from all my pulling on it, and i did notice that the alternator
shifted a bit when i loosened the bolts... so, i couldnt have damaged
it too much from the rather 'forceful' methods i employed right? i am
ashamed to say that i eventually even reached for the hammer... amatuer
hour. oh well - i suppose the alternator would either work or not if i
really damaged the stator... not just drop a volt or two - right?
you can tell what it is that i want to hear here...
thanks all. i'll tell you all how it goes...
bennett

I would keep an eye on the alternator output. Dropping a volt or so can
mean a diode died which will put more of an AC wave into the output and
lower the DC power.

It also could just mean the belt is slipping some too....

You will know when you change it. Did you locate the adjusting bolt for
the PS pump on the bottom right of it? Watch out for that damn lock
bolt!

Mike

bobvonbob wrote:
>
> thanks all - as usual i appreciate the help. bill - i looked at your
> diagram but i think my set up is a bit different - i'm sure i dont have
> two idler pullys - possibly one... i have to look underneath the power
> steering pump and see.
> mike - i'd love to not bother with the belt unfortunately i dont think
> this belt has EVER been changed - its thouroughly cracked and this
> seems like a good a time as any to change it.
> one more question - i noticed that yesterday - after i had loosened all
> the alternator bolts and pounded and pried on it for a while before
> giving up and tightening all the bolts down again - i went for a drive
> and noticed that my alternator output is lower - only about 12.75-13V -
> down from about 14. hopefully only because the belt was loosened a
> little from all my pulling on it, and i did notice that the alternator
> shifted a bit when i loosened the bolts... so, i couldnt have damaged
> it too much from the rather 'forceful' methods i employed right? i am
> ashamed to say that i eventually even reached for the hammer... amatuer
> hour. oh well - i suppose the alternator would either work or not if i
> really damaged the stator... not just drop a volt or two - right?
> you can tell what it is that i want to hear here...
> thanks all. i'll tell you all how it goes...
> bennett

thanks mike - havent had the chance to do it today. i'll know
tomorrow... thanks to you and everyone else i can probably actually get
it done! i thought this whole procedure was going to take me 45
minutes. serves me right for thinking i know what the hell i'm doing.
cheers,
bennett
ps thanks to carl for the autozone link - thats quite a nice free
resource!

Hey Bennett,
It's me Kevin we have the exact same Jeep. That altenator is held in
by a two piece adjusting bracket (one in front and one in back) so it
is tricky to see what bolts are holding what. There are only 3 bolts
you need to loosen to free the alternator. While standing in front of
your Jeep and using the alternator as a clock face. The first is at
about 2 o'clock and it is located about an inch directly below your AC
compressor pulley. Ignore the obvious bolt you see there at 1 o'clock
, it just attaches the alt. to the front adjusting bracket. The second
bolt is at about 5 o'clock, this is the pivot bolt. Finally the last
bolt is on the BACK SIDE of the alt. at the bottom just an inch from
your fender well. This one you might want to remove completely since
it will bind up the works if the bolt or bracket are bent at all. You
then may have to pry up from underneath the Jeep to free it if it is
really old. The thing will only pivot about an inch or two at best,
but that should be plenty to remove and install the new belt. You'll
basically be pulling it up towards the center of the the Jeep to get it
to slacken the belt . When reinstalling if you have your stock lug
wrench that is mounted right there on the fender well, Slide the end of
that over the bolt there at 1 o'clock and push up with your left hand.
This forces the alt. down thus tightening the belt and you can tighten
those front two bolts with your right hand while keeping leverage on
the pry bar with your left. Then tighten the rear bolt last.
Good luck, I'd try this again before attacking the power steering pump
which was not designed to adjust tension on your belt system. Any luck
with that info on your emissions label under the hood? Let me know if
you have problems.
Kevin

You can undo a flat 'serpentine' belt with the alternator????? He
doesn't have V-belts....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Kevin wrote:
>
> Hey Bennett,
> It's me Kevin we have the exact same Jeep. That altenator is held in
> by a two piece adjusting bracket (one in front and one in back) so it
> is tricky to see what bolts are holding what. There are only 3 bolts
> you need to loosen to free the alternator. While standing in front of
> your Jeep and using the alternator as a clock face. The first is at
> about 2 o'clock and it is located about an inch directly below your AC
> compressor pulley. Ignore the obvious bolt you see there at 1 o'clock
> , it just attaches the alt. to the front adjusting bracket. The second
> bolt is at about 5 o'clock, this is the pivot bolt. Finally the last
> bolt is on the BACK SIDE of the alt. at the bottom just an inch from
> your fender well. This one you might want to remove completely since
> it will bind up the works if the bolt or bracket are bent at all. You
> then may have to pry up from underneath the Jeep to free it if it is
> really old. The thing will only pivot about an inch or two at best,
> but that should be plenty to remove and install the new belt. You'll
> basically be pulling it up towards the center of the the Jeep to get it
> to slacken the belt . When reinstalling if you have your stock lug
> wrench that is mounted right there on the fender well, Slide the end of
> that over the bolt there at 1 o'clock and push up with your left hand.
> This forces the alt. down thus tightening the belt and you can tighten
> those front two bolts with your right hand while keeping leverage on
> the pry bar with your left. Then tighten the rear bolt last.
> Good luck, I'd try this again before attacking the power steering pump
> which was not designed to adjust tension on your belt system. Any luck
> with that info on your emissions label under the hood? Let me know if
> you have problems.
> Kevin

hmmmm... ok i'm going out to look at it now.
and hey there kevin - yeah i looked under the hood but no love on the
emissions data... cant find the sticker. there is some insulation under
my hood so perhaps it is under that... where exactly would it be
located?
thanks for the detailed alternator description... i'm going to
investigate this and will get back to you.
- bennett