Buying a new car

"Dave C." > wrote in message
ink.net...
>> * Just because you had some bad experiences doesn't mean they're all bad.
>> They may have greed-based customer service skills, but they aren't all
>> rip-off artists like you allege. That's not fair--some dealers want to
>> treat their customers well because they want their return business.
>>
>
> OK, tell ya what . . . if you can name a fair car dealer in New England,
> and
> back it up with independently verifiable proof, I'll go buy my next new
> car
> from them. Just one condition . . . it has to be honda, toyota,
> nissan
> or suzuki. -Dave

Deal. I find you a dealer and a car, ad help you get a fantastic deal, and
you'll walk away happy. Let me know when you're ready! You'll have to do
some of it yourself though. Remember, I'm not getting a nickel off this,
just bragging rights.

You want the Honda s200--it's the best of the lot

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:54:20 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
> > wrote:
>
>>> The reality is that nobody is going to pay invoice price for a USED
>>> car when they could buy a new, untitled car for the same price or
>>> less.
>>
>>But many, many people don't know this.
>
> Hard to believe in this day and age, but I suppose there are a few.
>
>>> And even if you could find some sucker who would actually pay
>>> you that much, can your conscience stand the fact that you'd be making
>>> money by taking advantage of people?
>>
>>I would not do this. But car dealers do it all the time. And private
>>parties sell used cars for more than new ones of the same model cost all
>>the time, and they don't do it dishonestly. They ask a price and someone
>>pays it.
>
> They are taking advantage of the buyer's ignorance. If your conscience
> can stand that, more power to ya.

Someone wants to give me $8000 for my banged-up old Ford Fairlane that
drinks oil like a thirsty elephant? What am I gonna do, say no?

Scott, go look up the movie "Moscow Cowboys Come To America" and get back to
me. Look for the car-buying scene.

>
> Deal. I find you a dealer and a car, ad help you get a fantastic deal,
and
> you'll walk away happy. Let me know when you're ready! You'll have to do
> some of it yourself though. Remember, I'm not getting a nickel off this,
> just bragging rights.
>
> You want the Honda s200--it's the best of the lot

If it must be honda, I'd be leaning toward the civic hybrid, unless they
come out with an accord hybrid wagon (now that would be sweet) -Dave

>
> Like I said before, if I wanted to plop down millions on a house or condo,
> I
> could walk to work. Or, if I wanted to work at wally world, I could walk
> to
> work. But if I want to earn decent money OR live in a reasonably priced
> house, I have to drive to work. Just like hundreds of millions of other
> commuters. -Dave
>
>
Funny. You want to earn decent money and live in a reasonably priced house
but you begrudge some car salesman from making a living. The car salesman's
job is to get as much for the car as he can (they work on a percentage of
the profit) and your job is to get it for the least you can. Somewhere in
there is a price that you, the salesman and the dealer will be satisfied
with. That doesn't make any of you scum or thieves.

> Funny. You want to earn decent money and live in a reasonably priced
house
> but you begrudge some car salesman from making a living. The car
salesman's
> job is to get as much for the car as he can (they work on a percentage of
> the profit) and your job is to get it for the least you can. Somewhere in
> there is a price that you, the salesman and the dealer will be satisfied
> with. That doesn't make any of you scum or thieves.
>

It certainly does make a car salesman a thief, if he sells a car for
thousands of dollars more than another car dealer would sell it for. There
is not THAT much difference from one dealer to another. If you think it's
OK just because the customer makes the final decision whether to buy or not,
consider how you'd feel if your daughter just purchased a car for $25K that
a dealer in another state would have sold her for $20K. Then remember that
even at $20K, your daughter's car salesman would have made a VERY HEALTHY
commission on the sale. Now think about what your daughter could have done
with that extra $5K that was PURE PROFIT for the car dealer. If you aren't
boiling mad by this point, you aren't human.

You shouldn't have to jump through hoops or do several hours of research
just to try to avoid getting ripped off. There is nothing more difficult to
do than to buy a car at a reasonable price in the U.S., without getting
ripped off. If you find it easy to buy a car, you're a sucker, plain and
simple. And car salesmen LOVE to see you on their lots. -Dave

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 18:57:19 GMT, "Dave C." > wrote:

>
>> >
>> >Ummm . . . cause it's kinda tough to build your own. (isn't that
>> >obvious?) -Dave
>> >
>> You don't have to buy new, do you?
>> You deal with scum by choice, right?
>>
>
>OK, so should I deal with private scum or commercial scum? It's kinda hard
>to walk to work when you're twenty miles from the office and live in upstate
>New York. (so bicycling is out of the question also, most of the
>ear) -Dave
>
Well, now you are trying to say that *all* sellers of cars are scum;
that's something I am not willing to accept at all.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:26:40 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> wrote:

>"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:54:20 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> The reality is that nobody is going to pay invoice price for a USED
>>>> car when they could buy a new, untitled car for the same price or
>>>> less.
>>>
>>>But many, many people don't know this.
>>
>> Hard to believe in this day and age, but I suppose there are a few.
>>
>>>> And even if you could find some sucker who would actually pay
>>>> you that much, can your conscience stand the fact that you'd be making
>>>> money by taking advantage of people?
>>>
>>>I would not do this. But car dealers do it all the time. And private
>>>parties sell used cars for more than new ones of the same model cost all
>>>the time, and they don't do it dishonestly. They ask a price and someone
>>>pays it.
>>
>> They are taking advantage of the buyer's ignorance. If your conscience
>> can stand that, more power to ya.
>
>Someone wants to give me $8000 for my banged-up old Ford Fairlane that
>drinks oil like a thirsty elephant? What am I gonna do, say no?

So when others do this, they're bad, but when you do it, you're just
fine?
>
>Scott, go look up the movie "Moscow Cowboys Come To America" and get back to
>me. Look for the car-buying scene.
>

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

"Dave C." > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
>> Funny. You want to earn decent money and live in a reasonably priced
> house
>> but you begrudge some car salesman from making a living. The car
> salesman's
>> job is to get as much for the car as he can (they work on a percentage of
>> the profit) and your job is to get it for the least you can. Somewhere
>> in
>> there is a price that you, the salesman and the dealer will be satisfied
>> with. That doesn't make any of you scum or thieves.
>>
>
> It certainly does make a car salesman a thief, if he sells a car for
> thousands of dollars more than another car dealer would sell it for.
> There
> is not THAT much difference from one dealer to another. If you think it's
> OK just because the customer makes the final decision whether to buy or
> not,
> consider how you'd feel if your daughter just purchased a car for $25K
> that
> a dealer in another state would have sold her for $20K. Then remember
> that
> even at $20K, your daughter's car salesman would have made a VERY HEALTHY
> commission on the sale. Now think about what your daughter could have
> done
> with that extra $5K that was PURE PROFIT for the car dealer. If you
> aren't
> boiling mad by this point, you aren't human.
>
> You shouldn't have to jump through hoops or do several hours of research
> just to try to avoid getting ripped off. There is nothing more difficult
> to
> do than to buy a car at a reasonable price in the U.S., without getting
> ripped off. If you find it easy to buy a car, you're a sucker, plain and
> simple. And car salesmen LOVE to see you on their lots. -Dave
>
>

And what if someone else, in a different area does the same job that you do
for less salary? Does that make you a thief? As a worker you want to get
paid the most you can for the job you do. Any salesperson on commission,
whether it be cars or ceramic tile or TV's wants to make the most he can.
They basically do not make any salaries, just commissions. That doesn't make
them thieves. Many years ago Oldsmobile decided to go with the 'one price
car'. They lowered the window price to a very small margin of profit for the
dealer. They figured many people were tired of haggling and if they knew
they can buy the car for a low price and the price was the same everywhere
they would be happy. Guess what? They still came in and tried to haggle the
price down causing Oldsmobile to abandon that policy. Everyone wants a
bargain but I'll bet you're the one that beats the salesman over the head
for the cheapest deal but when something goes wrong with the car you run
into the showroom and yell at him for not helping you out. You get what you
pay for. Remember, price doesn't make the best deal. Price and service
combined make the best deal and the best value.

Jerr wrote:
> And what if someone else, in a different area does the same job that you do
> for less salary? Does that make you a thief? As a worker you want to get
> paid the most you can for the job you do. Any salesperson on commission,
> whether it be cars or ceramic tile or TV's wants to make the most he can.

Granted. Open the industry to real competition and I'll no longer have a
problem with car dealers' behavior -- because competition will force them
to become more reasonable. Buying a car (without WAOs) should be just
like buying a lawnmower.

"Dave C." > wrote in message
ink.net...
> >
>> Deal. I find you a dealer and a car, ad help you get a fantastic deal,
> and
>> you'll walk away happy. Let me know when you're ready! You'll have to
>> do
>> some of it yourself though. Remember, I'm not getting a nickel off this,
>> just bragging rights.
>>
>> You want the Honda s200--it's the best of the lot
>
> If it must be honda, I'd be leaning toward the civic hybrid, unless they
> come out with an accord hybrid wagon (now that would be sweet) -Dave

Your choice. I wish they had stronger engines, but it's your choice. Just
say when, Dave--I'm there for ya!