Buying a new car

"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:26:40 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:54:20 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The reality is that nobody is going to pay invoice price for a USED
>>>>> car when they could buy a new, untitled car for the same price or
>>>>> less.
>>>>
>>>>But many, many people don't know this.
>>>
>>> Hard to believe in this day and age, but I suppose there are a few.
>>>
>>>>> And even if you could find some sucker who would actually pay
>>>>> you that much, can your conscience stand the fact that you'd be making
>>>>> money by taking advantage of people?
>>>>
>>>>I would not do this. But car dealers do it all the time. And private
>>>>parties sell used cars for more than new ones of the same model cost all
>>>>the time, and they don't do it dishonestly. They ask a price and someone
>>>>pays it.
>>>
>>> They are taking advantage of the buyer's ignorance. If your conscience
>>> can stand that, more power to ya.
>>
>>Someone wants to give me $8000 for my banged-up old Ford Fairlane that
>>drinks oil like a thirsty elephant? What am I gonna do, say no?
>
> So when others do this, they're bad, but when you do it, you're just
> fine?

I'm fine anyway but I'm not the one accusing others of taking advantage
of their ignorance. That was someone else; Steve or Scott. Me, I'm like
James Brown: Super Bad!

"John David Galt" > wrote in message
...
> Jerr wrote:
>> And what if someone else, in a different area does the same job that you
>> do for less salary? Does that make you a thief? As a worker you want to
>> get paid the most you can for the job you do. Any salesperson on
>> commission, whether it be cars or ceramic tile or TV's wants to make the
>> most he can.
>
> Granted. Open the industry to real competition and I'll no longer have a
> problem with car dealers' behavior -- because competition will force them
> to become more reasonable. Buying a car (without WAOs) should be just
> like buying a lawnmower.

Well, not exactly. You can't ride a lawnmower to work, and I think
lawnmowers are cheaper by a few thousand dollars

>> Granted. Open the industry to real competition and I'll no longer have a
>> problem with car dealers' behavior -- because competition will force them
>> to become more reasonable. Buying a car (without WAOs) should be just
>> like buying a lawnmower.

> Well, not exactly. You can't ride a lawnmower to work, and I think
> lawnmowers are cheaper by a few thousand dollars

Yes, exactly. The fact you drive it to work makes no difference
(except you may need somebody to give you a ride to the car dealer).
So the price is higher. My Visa can handle it, can't yours?
(And selling the old one becomes the owner's problem, but why not?)

"John David Galt" > wrote in message
...
>>> Granted. Open the industry to real competition and I'll no longer have
>>> a
>>> problem with car dealers' behavior -- because competition will force
>>> them
>>> to become more reasonable. Buying a car (without WAOs) should be just
>>> like buying a lawnmower.
>
>> Well, not exactly. You can't ride a lawnmower to work, and I think
>> lawnmowers are cheaper by a few thousand dollars
>
> Yes, exactly. The fact you drive it to work makes no difference
> (except you may need somebody to give you a ride to the car dealer).
> So the price is higher. My Visa can handle it, can't yours?
> (And selling the old one becomes the owner's problem, but why not?)

I wasn't clear--I mean that lawnmowers aren't allowed as transportation on
public ways. Not the ones for home use anyways. Industrial mowers for
playing fields and parks are another matter, but they aren't used for
personal transportation anyway.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:37:39 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> wrote:

>I'm fine anyway but I'm not the one accusing others of taking advantage
>of their ignorance. That was someone else; Steve or Scott. Me, I'm like
>James Brown: Super Bad!

You bet!

I've seen some pretty 'ignorant' buyers. When I was buying our 99
F-250, I watched a salesman congratulate a couple for beating him down
to $500 lower than window sticker on a 3/4 ton van conversion. I
figure that was a minimum of $5000 more than the salesman would have
sold it for, easily. With a little work, that may have doubled to
$10,000.
Not my problem.

--
Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"

"Big Bill" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 01:37:39 GMT, "Skip Elliott Bowman"
> > wrote:
>
>>I'm fine anyway but I'm not the one accusing others of taking
>>advantage
>>of their ignorance. That was someone else; Steve or Scott. Me, I'm like
>>James Brown: Super Bad!
>
> You bet!
>
> I've seen some pretty 'ignorant' buyers. When I was buying our 99
> F-250, I watched a salesman congratulate a couple for beating him down
> to $500 lower than window sticker on a 3/4 ton van conversion. I
> figure that was a minimum of $5000 more than the salesman would have
> sold it for, easily. With a little work, that may have doubled to
> $10,000.
> Not my problem.

LMAO!!!

Jerr wrote:

> Funny. You want to earn decent money and live in a reasonably priced house
> but you begrudge some car salesman from making a living. The car salesman's
> job is to get as much for the car as he can (they work on a percentage of
> the profit) and your job is to get it for the least you can. Somewhere in
> there is a price that you, the salesman and the dealer will be satisfied
> with. That doesn't make any of you scum or thieves.

Some people take the whole car-buying experience much too personally.

The key to successful negotiations is to keep your cool, and be ready to
walk away.

Of course you don't want to make the common mistakes, such as telling
the dealer you'll be paying cash, telling the dealer that you've decided
on a specific model with specific options, and letting it be known up
front that you won't be purchasing an extended warranty, or any of the
dealer installed non-OEM options (for some makes, especially Honda, most
options are dealer installed, not factory installed).

A large part of the problem is that most dealers won't simply state the
price, they'll state an artificially low price, then try to add on a
bunch of bogus fees like the doc fee, advertising fee, or dealer prep
fee. Or in the case of Saturn, they'll claim a non-negotiable set price,
and still try to add on a bunch of bogus fees.

The "one at this price" ads contribute to the mistrust as well. Even the
"six at this price" ads usually have a catch, i.e. my relative was
buying an Accord SE, and there was a very low price advertised by a
local dealer, way below invoice. And all six of these vehicles were
actually on the lot---and they were all black. In a way, it was fair,
the dealers have trouble selling black cars in this area, so they'll let
them go for less. OTOH, they pay the same to the factory for black as
they do for grey, blue, etc.. Ended up paying $375 more for a silver,
negotiated down from the dealer's request of $750 more. Still well under
invoice, but not as good a deal as advertised in the newspaper. The most
amusing part of this transaction was the attempt by the finance person
to sell the Autonation extended warranty, which was both hundreds of
dollars more expensive, and which covered less, than the Honda extended
warranty (which was not purchased anyway).

Skip Elliott Bowman wrote:
> "John David Galt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>>Granted. Open the industry to real competition and I'll no longer have
>>>>a
>>>>problem with car dealers' behavior -- because competition will force
>>>>them
>>>>to become more reasonable. Buying a car (without WAOs) should be just
>>>>like buying a lawnmower.
>>
>>>Well, not exactly. You can't ride a lawnmower to work, and I think
>>>lawnmowers are cheaper by a few thousand dollars
>>
>>Yes, exactly. The fact you drive it to work makes no difference
>>(except you may need somebody to give you a ride to the car dealer).
>>So the price is higher. My Visa can handle it, can't yours?
>>(And selling the old one becomes the owner's problem, but why not?)
>
>
> I wasn't clear--I mean that lawnmowers aren't allowed as transportation on
> public ways.

Not relevant to the process of buying one.

>
> Well, not exactly. You can't ride a lawnmower to work, and I think
> lawnmowers are cheaper by a few thousand dollars

You haven't seen MY lawnmower. -Dave

> Then your housing market is worse than SoCal's.
>
> Where do you live? Maui?
>

Boston area, where houses start around $500K, if they can JUST avoid being
condemned. -Dave