Retune needed?

Wondered if any of you guys could help.

My 156 ('98) v6 has started to occasionally cut out, soon after starting.
Suddenly the revs will die and sometimes, just before the engine's about to
die, the revs shoot up to 4-5'000. Luckly, I usually have my foot on the
clutch at this point. At other times, the car stalls. It only does this once
however - after it's re-started, it's fine.

The car was serviced (72k) about 6 months ago, at which point all the points
were replaced and the car's only done 5k since then. Car starts first time
and nothing else seems amiss.

Is this just a matter of a re-tune, or could this be a symptom of something
more unpleasant?

Any help appreciated.

Steve

> Wondered if any of you guys could help.
>
> My 156 ('98) v6 has started to occasionally cut out, soon after starting.
> Suddenly the revs will die and sometimes, just before the engine's about
> to die, the revs shoot up to 4-5'000. Luckly, I usually have my foot on
> the clutch at this point. At other times, the car stalls. It only does
> this once however - after it's re-started, it's fine.
>
> The car was serviced (72k) about 6 months ago, at which point all the
> points were replaced and the car's only done 5k since then. Car starts
> first time and nothing else seems amiss.
>
> Is this just a matter of a re-tune, or could this be a symptom of
> something more unpleasant?
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Steve

Have you checked for any fault codes? Remember it's a fly-by-wire system,
so could be something like the potentiometer.

Mr FF

Fault codes? The dash board doesn't show anything out of the ordinary. I
have noticed that the idling is usually slighlty unstable with the rev meter
gently going up and down by 50-revs or so. Don't know if this has any
bearing on the matter.

Steve


"Mr Flipflops" > wrote in message
...
>> Wondered if any of you guys could help.
>>
>> My 156 ('98) v6 has started to occasionally cut out, soon after starting.
>> Suddenly the revs will die and sometimes, just before the engine's about
>> to die, the revs shoot up to 4-5'000. Luckly, I usually have my foot on
>> the clutch at this point. At other times, the car stalls. It only does
>> this once however - after it's re-started, it's fine.
>>
>> The car was serviced (72k) about 6 months ago, at which point all the
>> points were replaced and the car's only done 5k since then. Car starts
>> first time and nothing else seems amiss.
>>
>> Is this just a matter of a re-tune, or could this be a symptom of
>> something more unpleasant?
>>
>> Any help appreciated.
>>
>> Steve
>
> Have you checked for any fault codes? Remember it's a fly-by-wire system,
> so could be something like the potentiometer.
>

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> Mr FF
>
> Fault codes? The dash board doesn't show anything out of the ordinary. I
> have noticed that the idling is usually slighlty unstable with the rev
> meter gently going up and down by 50-revs or so. Don't know if this has
> any bearing on the matter.
>
> Steve

I mean hook up the OBD II socket via OBD cable to your laptop and AlfaDiag,
or if that's not an option, get the local FIAT/Alfa dealer to perform a
scan. Chances are there could be something flagged in your ECU. If you
have a laptop with a serial port, you're just as cheap doing it yourself
plus you would have the tools for future problems.

One other thing you could try. Disconnect the MAF (air flow meter), and see
if the problem is worse or stays the same. If it's the same, it could be
your MAF is hosed. Faulty readings from that could well cause crap running.
Do you have any flatspots in the rev range? It should be constant pull all
the way to 7k revs. Mine used to hesitate at 5k, then I replaced the MAF,
and now it goes like a train.

You'll have to bear with me Mr FF, although I've a technical background
(software developer), the only time I lift the bonnet is to make sure
there's enough of the slippery stuff inside the go part of the car.

Right then

1 - I like the sound of self-diagnosis, and have a laptop but what and where
is the Obi-Wan Kenobi II socket/cable?
2 - Again, the AlfaDiag?
3 - Sorry, but the MAF? Where would I expect to find it?
4 - I haven't noticed any apparent flat spot, but then again, I've just come
off a 3 month ban for speeding, so I'm a bit reluctant to see how quickly 7k
can be reached. I'm sure this will change.

Thanks for your help

Steve



"Mr Flipflops" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Mr FF
>>
>> Fault codes? The dash board doesn't show anything out of the ordinary. I
>> have noticed that the idling is usually slighlty unstable with the rev
>> meter gently going up and down by 50-revs or so. Don't know if this has
>> any bearing on the matter.
>>
>> Steve
>
> I mean hook up the OBD II socket via OBD cable to your laptop and
> AlfaDiag, or if that's not an option, get the local FIAT/Alfa dealer to
> perform a scan. Chances are there could be something flagged in your ECU.
> If you have a laptop with a serial port, you're just as cheap doing it
> yourself plus you would have the tools for future problems.
>
> One other thing you could try. Disconnect the MAF (air flow meter), and
> see if the problem is worse or stays the same. If it's the same, it could
> be your MAF is hosed. Faulty readings from that could well cause crap
> running. Do you have any flatspots in the rev range? It should be
> constant pull all the way to 7k revs. Mine used to hesitate at 5k, then I
> replaced the MAF, and now it goes like a train.
>

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> You'll have to bear with me Mr FF, although I've a technical background
> (software developer), the only time I lift the bonnet is to make sure
> there's enough of the slippery stuff inside the go part of the car.
>
> Right then
>
> 1 - I like the sound of self-diagnosis, and have a laptop but what and
> where is the Obi-Wan Kenobi II socket/cable?

You could pick one up on Ebay, but they're not all the same. Search for OBD
II. You need one that will support the KWP2000 protocol. If you don't want
to take the risk, look on the AlfaDiag page below, which has a link to
supported cables. I have tried the OptoOne cable mentioned with the
software and it works fine. (Somebody did point out that it might not be
suitable for high speed data logging though). The OBD II socket on the car
is next to the fuse box, under the flap below your steering column (it has a
shelf for loose change on it).

> 2 - Again, the AlfaDiag?

http://www.alfadiag.net

Remember, you must have a proper serial port, not a USB->Serial converter.

> 3 - Sorry, but the MAF? Where would I expect to find it?

There is a cylindrical plastic tube above the airbox. Open the bonnet,
stand at the front and look to your bottom right. Where the big intake hose
comes from. Into the tube, you will see a wire and plug. Where this
plugs in, is the MAF. If you buy a new MAF it comes as the tube plus the
bit sticking into it. What you want to do is unplug the connection to the
MAF, and note the difference in your running. Go to www.shop4parts.co.uk,
select you vehicle and the Fuel & Eng. Management category. There you will
find Air Flow Meters. There's a pic of them there. Yes, they really do cost
that much (I know, it's obscene).

> 4 - I haven't noticed any apparent flat spot, but then again, I've just
> come off a 3 month ban for speeding, so I'm a bit reluctant to see how
> quickly 7k can be reached. I'm sure this will change.

BTW, for other suggestions, you could try www.alfa156.net. Loads of info on
there.

Rgds

Stuart

Hi Mr FF

Thanks for this, I'll give it a try.

How come I'm not surprised by 170 smackers for a plastic tube..

"Mr Flipflops" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You'll have to bear with me Mr FF, although I've a technical background
>> (software developer), the only time I lift the bonnet is to make sure
>> there's enough of the slippery stuff inside the go part of the car.
>>
>> Right then
>>
>> 1 - I like the sound of self-diagnosis, and have a laptop but what and
>> where is the Obi-Wan Kenobi II socket/cable?
>
> You could pick one up on Ebay, but they're not all the same. Search for
> OBD II. You need one that will support the KWP2000 protocol. If you
> don't want to take the risk, look on the AlfaDiag page below, which has a
> link to supported cables. I have tried the OptoOne cable mentioned with
> the software and it works fine. (Somebody did point out that it might not
> be suitable for high speed data logging though). The OBD II socket on the
> car is next to the fuse box, under the flap below your steering column (it
> has a shelf for loose change on it).
>
>> 2 - Again, the AlfaDiag?
>
> http://www.alfadiag.net
>
> Remember, you must have a proper serial port, not a USB->Serial converter.
>
>> 3 - Sorry, but the MAF? Where would I expect to find it?
>
> There is a cylindrical plastic tube above the airbox. Open the bonnet,
> stand at the front and look to your bottom right. Where the big intake
> hose comes from. Into the tube, you will see a wire and plug. Where
> this plugs in, is the MAF. If you buy a new MAF it comes as the tube plus
> the bit sticking into it. What you want to do is unplug the connection to
> the MAF, and note the difference in your running. Go to
> www.shop4parts.co.uk, select you vehicle and the Fuel & Eng. Management
> category. There you will find Air Flow Meters. There's a pic of them
> there. Yes, they really do cost that much (I know, it's obscene).
>
>> 4 - I haven't noticed any apparent flat spot, but then again, I've just
>> come off a 3 month ban for speeding, so I'm a bit reluctant to see how
>> quickly 7k can be reached. I'm sure this will change.
>
> BTW, for other suggestions, you could try www.alfa156.net. Loads of info
> on there.
>
> Rgds
>
> Stuart
>

It's the electronics mounted in the plastic tube that pushes the cost up ..

Be careful as there are MAFs for sale on ebay that give the impression they
are Bosch units, but are of dubious quality. They have the same part number
printed on them, but not the Bosch logo ...

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Mr FF
>
> Thanks for this, I'll give it a try.
>
> How come I'm not surprised by 170 smackers for a plastic tube..
>
> "Mr Flipflops" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Steve" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> You'll have to bear with me Mr FF, although I've a technical background
> >> (software developer), the only time I lift the bonnet is to make sure
> >> there's enough of the slippery stuff inside the go part of the car.
> >>
> >> Right then
> >>
> >> 1 - I like the sound of self-diagnosis, and have a laptop but what and
> >> where is the Obi-Wan Kenobi II socket/cable?
> >
> > You could pick one up on Ebay, but they're not all the same. Search for
> > OBD II. You need one that will support the KWP2000 protocol. If you
> > don't want to take the risk, look on the AlfaDiag page below, which has
a
> > link to supported cables. I have tried the OptoOne cable mentioned with
> > the software and it works fine. (Somebody did point out that it might
not
> > be suitable for high speed data logging though). The OBD II socket on
the
> > car is next to the fuse box, under the flap below your steering column
(it
> > has a shelf for loose change on it).
> >
> >> 2 - Again, the AlfaDiag?
> >
> > http://www.alfadiag.net
> >
> > Remember, you must have a proper serial port, not a USB->Serial
converter.
> >
> >> 3 - Sorry, but the MAF? Where would I expect to find it?
> >
> > There is a cylindrical plastic tube above the airbox. Open the bonnet,
> > stand at the front and look to your bottom right. Where the big intake
> > hose comes from. Into the tube, you will see a wire and plug. Where
> > this plugs in, is the MAF. If you buy a new MAF it comes as the tube
plus
> > the bit sticking into it. What you want to do is unplug the connection
to
> > the MAF, and note the difference in your running. Go to
> > www.shop4parts.co.uk, select you vehicle and the Fuel & Eng. Management
> > category. There you will find Air Flow Meters. There's a pic of them
> > there. Yes, they really do cost that much (I know, it's obscene).
> >
> >> 4 - I haven't noticed any apparent flat spot, but then again, I've just
> >> come off a 3 month ban for speeding, so I'm a bit reluctant to see how
> >> quickly 7k can be reached. I'm sure this will change.
> >
> > BTW, for other suggestions, you could try www.alfa156.net. Loads of
info
> > on there.
> >
> > Rgds
> >
> > Stuart
> >
>
>