1992 SL2 - Aftermarket Disc Brake Pads

I have continually experienced problems over the years with the front
disk brake rotors and pads for my 1992 SL2 - particularly the "warped
rotor" sensation that is not caused by a warped rotor (others have
indicated that it has to do with the interaction between the pad
material and the iron of the rotor - a corrosion caused uneven braking
surface on the rotor.) I have tried Saturn as well as aftermarket
rotors and pads, but that never seemed to make any difference.

A while ago I installed a set of Akebono ProACT ceramic brake disc
pads on a freshly refaced set of stock Saturn rotors. I have been
quite impressed at the difference in performance and "feel" that the
ProACT pads seem to deliver.

Anyone else have any experience using this type of pad material - with
Saturn of aftermarket rotors?

Scott

I think the key is refaced.. I use to reface my rotors always but in
todays market for a few dollars more you can get NEW rotors.
Once I started using new rotors and better pads all the problem went
away. It is very very easy to warp a refaced rotor.. just stop suddenly
at about 50mph and you'll probably warp them

Please read this in reference to "warped" rotors:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm

> It is very very easy to warp a refaced rotor.. just stop suddenly
> at about 50mph and you'll probably warp them

I used to have a lot of problems with these same symptoms when I first
bought my '94 SC2. Once I switched to non-Saturn rotors and pads, the
problem went away. At first I bought Wagner premium rotors (which cost
significantly more than most other replacement rotors) and thought the
improvement was due to their higher quality. But I've been experimenting in
recent years on my 92 SC race car by using the cheapest possible rotors that
I can find. And I've also been resurfacing them when they get grooved (can
be as frequent as every 2 events, or a couple hundred road course miles).
I've had NO problems with any of the "warped" symptoms even after doing
this - which was a bit surprising to me at first. It's also made me not
think twice about resurfacing rotors. It may be only a couple bucks
difference, but I consider that a couple of bucks saved on this that I can
waste somewhere else.

This is my real-life experience - it is not speculation or second-hand
information. FWIW.

Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
---
Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com



> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I think the key is refaced.. I use to reface my rotors always but in
> todays market for a few dollars more you can get NEW rotors.
> Once I started using new rotors and better pads all the problem went
> away. It is very very easy to warp a refaced rotor.. just stop suddenly
> at about 50mph and you'll probably warp them
>

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:46:20 -0500, "Lane"
> wrote:

>Please read this in reference to "warped" rotors:
>http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm
>
>> It is very very easy to warp a refaced rotor.. just stop suddenly
>> at about 50mph and you'll probably warp them
>
>I used to have a lot of problems with these same symptoms when I first
>bought my '94 SC2. Once I switched to non-Saturn rotors and pads, the
>problem went away. At first I bought Wagner premium rotors (which cost
>significantly more than most other replacement rotors) and thought the
>improvement was due to their higher quality. But I've been experimenting in
>recent years on my 92 SC race car by using the cheapest possible rotors that
>I can find. And I've also been resurfacing them when they get grooved (can
>be as frequent as every 2 events, or a couple hundred road course miles).
>I've had NO problems with any of the "warped" symptoms even after doing
>this - which was a bit surprising to me at first. It's also made me not
>think twice about resurfacing rotors. It may be only a couple bucks
>difference, but I consider that a couple of bucks saved on this that I can
>waste somewhere else.
>
>This is my real-life experience - it is not speculation or second-hand
>information. FWIW.
>
>Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
>---
>Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com
>
>
>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>> I think the key is refaced.. I use to reface my rotors always but in
>> todays market for a few dollars more you can get NEW rotors.
>> Once I started using new rotors and better pads all the problem went
>> away. It is very very easy to warp a refaced rotor.. just stop suddenly
>> at about 50mph and you'll probably warp them
>>
>
I had read the article regarding "warped" rotors, and believe it to
be true. I did notice that after a sudden emergency stop, the brakes
would immediately seem to be warped. But, if you looked at the rotor
(outboard side being visible), you would see an impression of the
brake pad on the rotor surface. My thought was that coming to a
complete stop while keeping pressure on the brakes after an emergency
stop (i.e. hot rotor) would "weld" material from the pad onto the
rotor. This now uneven brake surface would then give you a pulsing or
"warped" brake operation.

The Akebono ProACT ceramic pads do not appear to be prone to that sort
of issue - and in general seems to give an excellent "feel" to
braking. Though it is claimed that the ProACT pads wear the rotor
about the same as the stock rotors, it will be interesting to see if
that is true.

By the way, I often did have rotors refaced because the "warping"
occurred so often, and the last time I had it done it cost $12 (US)
apiece, while new rotors could be had for around $14 (US). This
latest re-facing was done at a different shop, and instead of just a
cut surface, these had been finished in a mild cross-hatched method,
much as you would do for either a brake piston bore or a cylinder
bore.

Yep, me an my heavy fast foot were causing oem rotors to warp and much brake
dust on my '02 SC2, so I switched to Brembo oem rotors and Akebono pads. I
also changed the rear shoes to Wagners. Much difference in stopping
distance, response and much less dust on my alloys. Very happy.

marx404

My thoughts:

- my cheap rotors discolored, delaminated and rusted so fast and so bad
they actually were my most expensive rotors (per mile)
- my best set up is the Raybestos rotors with the Hawk HPS pads. This
combo has seen multiple track days and were/still are flawless.
- I dismount/inspect my calipers 2-3 times a year to grease/inspect.

Frank
97 SL1
128300Mi


Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:46:20 -0500, "Lane"
> > wrote:
>
> >Please read this in reference to "warped" rotors:
> >http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm
> >
> >> It is very very easy to warp a refaced rotor.. just stop suddenly
> >> at about 50mph and you'll probably warp them
> >
> >I used to have a lot of problems with these same symptoms when I first
> >bought my '94 SC2. Once I switched to non-Saturn rotors and pads, the
> >problem went away. At first I bought Wagner premium rotors (which cost
> >significantly more than most other replacement rotors) and thought the
> >improvement was due to their higher quality. But I've been experimenting in
> >recent years on my 92 SC race car by using the cheapest possible rotors that
> >I can find. And I've also been resurfacing them when they get grooved (can
> >be as frequent as every 2 events, or a couple hundred road course miles).
> >I've had NO problems with any of the "warped" symptoms even after doing
> >this - which was a bit surprising to me at first. It's also made me not
> >think twice about resurfacing rotors. It may be only a couple bucks
> >difference, but I consider that a couple of bucks saved on this that I can
> >waste somewhere else.
> >
> >This is my real-life experience - it is not speculation or second-hand
> >information. FWIW.
> >
> >Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
> >---
> >Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com
> >
> >
> >
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >> I think the key is refaced.. I use to reface my rotors always but in
> >> todays market for a few dollars more you can get NEW rotors.
> >> Once I started using new rotors and better pads all the problem went
> >> away. It is very very easy to warp a refaced rotor.. just stop suddenly
> >> at about 50mph and you'll probably warp them
> >>
> >
> I had read the article regarding "warped" rotors, and believe it to
> be true. I did notice that after a sudden emergency stop, the brakes
> would immediately seem to be warped. But, if you looked at the rotor
> (outboard side being visible), you would see an impression of the
> brake pad on the rotor surface. My thought was that coming to a
> complete stop while keeping pressure on the brakes after an emergency
> stop (i.e. hot rotor) would "weld" material from the pad onto the
> rotor. This now uneven brake surface would then give you a pulsing or
> "warped" brake operation.
>
> The Akebono ProACT ceramic pads do not appear to be prone to that sort
> of issue - and in general seems to give an excellent "feel" to
> braking. Though it is claimed that the ProACT pads wear the rotor
> about the same as the stock rotors, it will be interesting to see if
> that is true.
>
> By the way, I often did have rotors refaced because the "warping"
> occurred so often, and the last time I had it done it cost $12 (US)
> apiece, while new rotors could be had for around $14 (US). This
> latest re-facing was done at a different shop, and instead of just a
> cut surface, these had been finished in a mild cross-hatched method,
> much as you would do for either a brake piston bore or a cylinder
> bore.

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:36:16 -0400, "marx404" > wrote:

>Yep, me an my heavy fast foot were causing oem rotors to warp and much brake
>dust on my '02 SC2, so I switched to Brembo oem rotors and Akebono pads. I
>also changed the rear shoes to Wagners. Much difference in stopping
>distance, response and much less dust on my alloys. Very happy.
>
>marx404
>
Thanks for the input.