French-Made Valeo Starter --- Piece of Junk

In article >,
says...

> Is it possible that the Valeo was also a made-in-China unit? All the
> auto companies have really "gone global" in the past decade, to the point
> where something branded by a Euro company is likely made in India or China...
>
> I'm somewhat critical of unknown Indian/Malysian/Chinese suppliers, but
> if they have been around for a couple of years they often get a pretty
> good reputation.

I dont trust india parts. I had fought with a aftermarket ford engine
mount only to have it rip its guts open and start all back over again.
But then again it is still a ford design

> > Most of the parts suppliers I had called wanted $200 for a rebuilt starter
> > and the core. Thank you for your support. The little '96 Saturn cranked
> > right up.
>
> Keep in mind that a good alternator or starter rebuild can actually be
> superior to the factory item. The best rebuilds go through and replace all the
> wear parts (bearings, brushes, regulator, etc.) with superior components.
> That said, a lot of rebuild shops use cheap crap parts installed by people with
> little experience, and it's hard to see the difference from the outside.

Usually aftermarket alts come with a very good warranty. The problem
most people run into is they dont charge their battery prior to running
their car. That causes the alternator to over work itself and burns it
out. They also dont consider what took out their alt in the first place,
like a bad battery.

> How hard was it to pull and replace the starter? I've worked on the other
> side of the engine (alternator, PS pump, idler, tensioner) a good amount,
> enough to know what you get at from the top and what you get at from the
> bottom and what you do through the wheel well, but never had to muck with
> the starter.
>
> Tim.

I thought the same and got a good laugh - I work with a guy who rails the
French at any opportunity... My Dad did the Normandy thing - never said
anything about the French that I remember.

"Kirk Kohnen" > wrote in message
...
> Don't hold back, Justin! Tell us what you REALLY think!
>
> "Justin" <justin1138@REMOVEnet> wrote in message
> 7.130...
> > >> I have a crappy Valeo D6RA starter in front of me. If you want to
> > >> see it cussed, just google it. It's made by eurofaggots in France.
> > >> It failed
> >
> >
> > Don't expect too much from these French assholes and you won't be let
> down.
> > My father spent 3 years in France in the 60's when he was in the United
> > States Army (mechanic in the motor pool). He said that the army
employed
> a
> > lot of local French people to work on the base, and they were about as
> > useless as tits on a hog. They were lazy, took a ton of cigarette and
> > coffee breaks, and didn't work too hard when they were working. He also
> > said they were real rude. Here, we were spending billions to help
protect
> > their country and their democracy (after having already saved their
asses
> > in WW2), and they treated our boys like crap.
> >
> > What do you expect from a country that thinks snails are a delicacy?
What
> > a bunch of friggin' fairies. They sit back and ridicule the USA foreign
> > policy until they get invaded; then they sit back and watch us save
their
> > hides.
> >
> >
> > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
>
>

"Tim Shoppa" > wrote in message
om...
> " jls" > wrote in message
>.. .
> > Hello, Tim, I just got through crawling around in the gravel under the
> > Saturn. The starter I wound up with and just installed was new, made
in
> > China. I found it at a starter repair shop here for $135 and the
dealer
> > let me keep my precious Valeo, which I had misdiagnosed. Plus the
pieces
> > that fell out of it. The Valeo had sheared its shaft just aft of the
> > needle bearings on the drive end.
> >
> > The Chinese starter is guaranteed for 2 years. It has "Brand New
Starter"
> > and some numbers and assurances of OEM and whatnot written on the box.
>
> Is it possible that the Valeo was also a made-in-China unit?

It has a sticker on it saying, "Made in France." Also I noticed the needle
bearings have "Germany" on the race so nothing like trying to give a little
respectability to a bad starter.



All the
> auto companies have really "gone global" in the past decade, to the point
> where something branded by a Euro company is likely made in India or
China...
>
> I'm somewhat critical of unknown Indian/Malysian/Chinese suppliers, but
> if they have been around for a couple of years they often get a pretty
> good reputation.
>
> > Most of the parts suppliers I had called wanted $200 for a rebuilt
starter
> > and the core. Thank you for your support. The little '96 Saturn
cranked
> > right up.
>
> Keep in mind that a good alternator or starter rebuild can actually be
> superior to the factory item. The best rebuilds go through and replace
all the
> wear parts (bearings, brushes, regulator, etc.) with superior components.
> That said, a lot of rebuild shops use cheap crap parts installed by people
with
> little experience, and it's hard to see the difference from the outside.
>
> How hard was it to pull and replace the starter?

It wasn't easy. You will need a crawler because you will be running for
more tools and cussing. I had to use a mirror to get a 12mm socket on the
upper bolt attaching the starter to the crankcase. Plus, you need a 6"
extension. Plus there's room there for one hand only unless you have
little chipmunk paws. It's a several hour, knuckle-busting job, but worth
it I guess, if not just to build character.

The new starter I couldn't get a socket on the nut for the small solenoid
connector. The large connector you can see and it is easy. Luckily I found
a metric carburetor wrench for the small wire. Shorter the wrenches the
better because the space is so tight. And dark, so you'll need a droplight
too. I wound up using one of those LED lights you wear on your head like
a sweatband because if you stick a droplight up into the hole, it fills it
and then you got no room for your one hand.


I've worked on the other
> side of the engine (alternator, PS pump, idler, tensioner) a good amount,
> enough to know what you get at from the top and what you get at from the
> bottom and what you do through the wheel well, but never had to muck with
> the starter.
>
> Tim.

"ProfWdesk1" > wrote in message
...
> I read posts here about problems ... but, ... no one I met have ever had
any
> major problems with their Saturns in the first 100k

Good. Mine's purring away now. I'm going for the next 100k. I have
faith the engine can do it, plus it's a right powerful little thing in such
a small package.

As for the starter, alternator, AC, and other accessories . . .

Ed,

I believe most Toyotas use the Nippon-Denso made starter. These are the
same starters used in Chrysler products (since at least 1990 since I fixed a
van that had one back in 1996) and some Mitsubishi products as well. They
are actually a pretty well made starter and 95+% of the failures are due to
premature wear on the high current copper solenoid contacts. I've found
these contacts usually last about 5-6 years/60K miles before they start to
show symptoms of failure (turn key, hear click, but no starter motor
engagement). The good news is that they usually then take several
weeks/months before they fail catastrophically and you can't start the
vehicle.

Like you, I've been successful in replacing just the contacts. This
requires removal of the starter and then opening the solenoid by removing
three (I think they were 4mm?) solenoid chamber bolts. The contacts are
held in place by a couple of additional bolts, but can easily be replaced in
about 5 minutes total time. After replacing the contacts, I also wire brush
the copper ring on the solenoid plunger and then spray everything down with
electronic parts/contact cleaner before reassembling. As I said, this takes
about 5 minutes more time than just replacing the old unit with a rebuilt or
new one. The best part is that the contacts cost a whole lot less than a
rebuilt starter. Here is a web site I found that has some great pictures
and the guy sells the contacts for $10 plus a dollar S/H to anywhere in the
US. The only problem is knowing which type of contacts you need (there are
4 types in use). My 1999 transverse engine minivan used one type "A" and
one type "B". A LHS longitudinal engine car used one type "A" and one type
"C". (Pictures of the types are on the web site referenced below).

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Starter.shtml

I know this does not apply for the Saturn, but thought I'd post it here
since I would assume you could find the contacts somewhere for the Saturn
starter as well. Another suggestion is to look up "Starter Rebuilders" or
"Alternator Rebuilders" in the telephone book or online directory to see if
there is one in your area. Before I found the web source, I drove 40+ miles
one way to a small rebuilder that I found listed and if I carried in the
parts they always seemed to be able to sell me the ones I needed.

Bob

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
> Just be glad it isn't a Toyota starter. I had the solenoid
> fail on the last Toyota I owned. Not only couldn't you buy
> just the solenoid, the #$@*& Toyota starter was over
> $500!!!!
>
> Fortunately for me, I visited a local automotive electrical
> rebuilder. The only thing actually wrong with my wonderful
> awesome really great Toyota starter was the copper contact
> "bolt" in one end of the solenoid. I took just the "bolt" to
> the rebuilder. The only thing I did was show him the part
> and he immediately identified the vehicle. I made some
> comment to the effect that the part must fail a lot for him
> to recognize the part. He laughed and said those s&^t Toyota
> starters don't usually last long enough for that part to
> fail. You want to hear about the alternator from the same
> wonderful amazingly unbelievably perfect Toyota? It was
> total CRAP. Every August I could count on a call from my ex
> telling me that the car had stopped and all the warning
> lights were on. Every damn time it was alternator. And once
> again, Toyota did not sell repair parts except for a
> complete $500+ alternator. Fortunately the internal
> regulator (the part that kept failing) was available after
> market. The reason the regulator kept failing was that those
> infallible Toyota engineers had located the alternator next
> to the exhaust manifold, in an area with virtually no air
> flow - particularly when the car was driven by a woman who
> never drove on the highway. Then there was the marvelous
> Toyota AC and the unbelievably wonderful plastic that turned
> a beautiful shade of white, and the incredible fuel pump
> relays that improved vehicle safety by immobilizing the
> vehicle, and should I mention the awesome automatic
> transmission that let you know it was shifting by rattling
> your teeth? Or maybe I should mention the cost of a front
> fender?
>
> If you think I hate Toyotas, you got that right. Thanks for
> the opportunity to vent.
>
> Anyhow, back to your original problem - look for an
> automotive electrical rebuilder in your area. chances are he
> can get a solenoid.
>
> Ed