Sound like a fuel pump?

"muzician21" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 27, 12:05 pm, "hls" > wrote:
> "muzician21" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
> > places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.
>
> This is a good way to spend a lot of money.....guessing.
> You need to diagnose the real problem when it exists, and I
> full well realize how hard intermittents can be to find.


What I was hoping for are alternate suggestions of places to look if
not the fuel pump. If I felt I had all the answers I wouldn't be on
here asking. "Ask around for suggestions" has worked out pretty well
over the years.

It's an all or nothing scenario that started occurring suddenly. Car
either runs great or doesn't run at all. 22 year old factory pump with
over 170k miles on it. Does this sound like behavior an aging pump can
exhibit, suddenly gets stubborn about spinning up? What else could
cause this?
*******
I have seen a lot of other things cause this. The few problems
I have had with a defective fuel pump include sometimes failure to start, up
to never starts.

I have had intermittent ignition switches do something similar.
Also, I found an intermittent CPS (crankshaft position sensor)
that caused this.

Sometimes other problems in the electrics will cause intermittent
start/run situations.

It would be really good to know, when this rascal fails to run,
what the actual fuel pressure is.

In addition, it would be helpful to know if you are getting good
hot consistent spark.

I had one problem with a powertrain control system (just call
it a computer) that was intermittent. But it did not act exactly
like the one you are describing.

My comment was not intended to make fun of you..
Intermittents are often very hard to find. And you can spend
a ton of money guessing.

"willameena" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 27, 9:43 am, muzician21 > wrote:
> Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
> places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.

Put a fuel pump in it and quit wasting or time.

***
You are guaranteeing that diagnosis ?

On Jul 27, 9:43*am, muzician21 > wrote:
> Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
> places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.

Worn brushes will do that. Maybe put a mallet with remote cord?.

Greg

>What I was hoping for are alternate suggestions of places to look if
>not the fuel pump. If I felt I had all the answers I wouldn't be on
>here asking. "Ask around for suggestions" has worked out pretty well
>over the years.

>It's an all or nothing scenario that started occurring suddenly. Car
>either runs great or doesn't run at all. 22 year old factory pump with
>over 170k miles on it. Does this sound like behavior an aging pump can
>exhibit, suddenly gets stubborn about spinning up? What else could
>cause this?

FWIW, I went thru a problem with an old 1989 Chevy Corsica that was fuel
related. First thing I did was to test the ignition system for spark - spark
was good so I knew computer was powered and crank sensor was OK. Next I
tested the fuel pressure because I suspected the original fuel pump was
finally bad. To my surprise, I had good pressure. I then went to Autozone
and rented/bought/whatever a fuel injector noid light set, disconnected an
injector, plugged the light in, cranked the engine and found I wasn't
getting any pulse signal to the injectors to fire them. I then learned that
on some fuel injection systems (especially the older batch-fired versus
sequential injection) that the injectors can be wired in parallel 3 on each
circuit for a V-6. Over the years the injector coils short circuit and have
much less than their original 12 ohms of impedance. Since 3 injectors are in
parallel this results in a big increase in current flow thru the transistors
in the computer and it can't always handle it. So sometimes it fires the
injectors and sometimes it doesn't. I have no idea if this is your problem
(on a Toyota?), but it's very easy to rent the noid light set and rule out
the injectors not firing.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:42:43 -0500, hls wrote:

>
> "willameena" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Jul 27, 9:43 am, muzician21 > wrote:
>> Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
>> places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.
>
> Put a fuel pump in it and quit wasting or time.
>
> ***
> You are guaranteeing that diagnosis ?


Yeah. I think he should pony up the cost of the fuel pump, and if it works
muzician can pay him back.

"Hachiroku" > wrote in message
b.com...
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:42:43 -0500, hls wrote:
>
>>
>> "willameena" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Jul 27, 9:43 am, muzician21 > wrote:
>>> Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
>>> places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.
>>
have you thought about dirty fuel or the filter in the tank ,at the pick up
point

On 7/27/2011 09:43, muzician21 wrote:
> Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
> places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.
>


Geez. Whack the tank, it works. Check the electrical connections at the
pump.No cost, just elbow grease.

--
Steve Walker
(remove brain when replying)

On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:52:30 +0800, snow wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku" > wrote in message
> b.com...
>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:42:43 -0500, hls wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "willameena" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> On Jul 27, 9:43 am, muzician21 > wrote:
>>>> Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
>>>> places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.
>>>
> have you thought about dirty fuel or the filter in the tank ,at the pick up
> point


I have, yes, but I don't know if the OP did...

On Jul 27, 2:42*pm, "hls" > wrote:
..
>
> ***
> You are guaranteeing that diagnosis *?

YES!!! That is one of the simplest diagnosis you can do, when you
don't hear a fuel pump running!

On Jul 27, 2:41*pm, "hls" > wrote:
> "muzician21" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Jul 27, 12:05 pm, "hls" > wrote:
>
> > "muzician21" > wrote in message
>
> ....
>
> > > Other observation, I whacked on the fuel tank a few times in various
> > > places this morning with a rubber mallet, the car started right up.
>
> > This is a good way to spend a lot of money.....guessing.
> > You need to diagnose the real problem when it exists, and I
> > full well realize how hard intermittents can be to find.
>
> What I was hoping for are alternate suggestions of places to look if
> not the fuel pump. If I felt I had all the answers I wouldn't be on
> here asking. "Ask around for suggestions" has worked out pretty well
> over the years.
>
> It's an all or nothing scenario that started occurring suddenly. Car
> either runs great or doesn't run at all. 22 year old factory pump with
> over 170k miles on it. Does this sound like behavior an aging pump can
> exhibit, suddenly gets stubborn about spinning up? What else could
> cause this?
> *******
> I have seen a lot of other things cause this. *The few problems
> I have had with a defective fuel pump include sometimes failure to start, up
> to never starts.
>
> I have had intermittent ignition switches do something similar.
> Also, I found an intermittent CPS (crankshaft position sensor)
> that caused this.
>
> Sometimes other problems in the electrics will cause intermittent
> start/run situations.
>
> It would be really good to know, when this rascal fails to run,
> what the actual fuel pressure is.
>
> In addition, it would be helpful to know if you are getting good
> hot consistent spark.
>
> I had one problem with a powertrain control system (just call
> it a computer) *that was intermittent. * But it did not act exactly
> like the one you are describing.
>
> My comment was not intended to make fun of you..
> Intermittents are often very hard to find. And you can spend
> a ton of money guessing.

Almost sounds like a loose connection to the fuel pump.. If you bang
on the tank and it now starts the pump could be intermittantly
working. also swap your f/p relay with another one to see if that
helps.

chas