Tires not holding air?

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 00:17:09 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >
wrote:

wrote in
:
>
>
>>>
>> Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
>> decent to CRAP.
>
>
>
>The Red Chinese produce quality work provided the West (or a free country
>like South Korea) does their design and QC for them.
>
>
>
>> The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
>> even their Korean tires.
>
>
>
>I've had Hankooks for the last several years. They have been, and remain,
>excellent.
>
>Of course, mine have been competently mounted, something you can't say for
>95% of tires out there...
>
>
>
>> Apparently they have gotten better - the ones
>> I had experience with had "corners" on them instead of being round -
>> if you know what I mean.
>
>
>
>Poor mounting technique. So distressingly common. It wasn't the tires,
>believe me.

No, it was NOT poor mounting technique. The tire carcasses were
inconsistant, and the tires went out of round within less than
10,000km (6,000 miles) All 4 went bad, one at a time, over a period of
several weeks. After putting up with "bad vibrations" for a couple of
months - with the dealer attempting to balance the shake out, the
tires were removed and replaced with a diffferent brand
>
>>
>> I won't TOUCH a chinese tire. Perhaps Taiwanese, but never mainland
>> china - and I'm not partial to VietNamese or Philipino tires either.
>>
>
>
>If they're being sold under a major brand, they're fine. The point of
>branding is to assure your clients that the final product is good,
>regardless of where made.

Major brand name does NOT guarantee quality assurance - just makes it
a BIT easier to get them replaced if they are unsatisfactory.
>
>Tires, and people's rate of satisfaction with them, are 100% tied to
>competent mounting. But, unfortunately, competent mounting is extremely
>rare.

I'd have to dissagree with you. After MANY years in the business -
going back to the faiure of the Firestone 721 and the Uniroyal Zeta
40M tire series - among many others - where mounting had NOTHING to do
with the problems experienced. Those kinds of problems STILL happen.
Yes - sometimes poor mounting causes tire problems - but I would say
it is not the PREDOMINANT cause of tire problems.
>
>Few tires are bad, but most tires are badly mounted. And the tires get
>blamed.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 06:37:59 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >
wrote:

>jim beam > wrote in
et:
>
>
>>
>> i know you don't like people disagreeing with you dude,
>
>
>
>
>Who said that? Disagree all you want. There's nothing I can do either way.
>
>
>
>> but i have to
>> take issue on this. tire quality is very much at issue here, and it
>> can't be solved by "mounting".
>
>
>
>It can, and it does. I have abundant personal experience with this, as I've
>stated and detailed numerous times.
>
>Most tires judged as defective actually suffer from bad mounting technique.
>Most wheels judged as "bent" are actually within spec, but are declared
>"bent" by tire monkeys who are stumped as to why they can't make vibrations
>go away.
>
><snip>
>
>There's nothing at all wrong with Chinese product sold under major brand-
>names.
And I will dissagree with you - from MY experience - on both the tire
and the rim. Just because a rim is "within manufacturers tolerance"
does NOT mean it is not "bent", and no matter how you mount a "turd"
it's still a "turd". Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 06:36:28 -0700 (PDT), N8N >
wrote:

>On Aug 24, 8:17Â*pm, Tegger > wrote:
>> wrote :
>>
>>
>>
>> > Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
>> > decent to CRAP.
>>
>> The Red Chinese produce quality work provided the West (or a free country
>> like South Korea) does their design and QC for them.
>>
>> > The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
>> > even their Korean tires.
>>
>> I've had Hankooks for the last several years. They have been, and remain,
>> excellent.
>>
>> Of course, mine have been competently mounted, something you can't say for
>> 95% of tires out there...
>
>Damn straight. It's a rare shop that knows what the red and yellow
>dots mean. I know that in practice it likely doesn't matter in 90+
>percent of installations, but one would think that professional pride
>would involve "doing it right."
>
>nate
And all the dot orientation does is REDUCE the ammount of weight
required to BALANCE the tire. It has NOTHING to do with making the
tire round, or keeping the belts from shifting, or the cords from
separating, or the tread from cracking, or the sidewalls from
"breathing".

I've had radial tire plys stretch and slip, belts shift and separate,
treads separate from the carcase, steel belts break and protrude
through the rubber, sidewalls split, sidewalls crack, and air come out
through the sidewalls in thousands of places on the same tine - with
NO impact damage, under-inflation, or other abose.

I've had tires that balanced perfectly when installed require
rebalancing after a week of driving - and the inbalance changed again
within days - You could balance out the shake at 9 in the morning and
it would be shaking again by noon. If not replaced, the tire would
fail within weeks. Might get one out of 4 on a car, or 3 out of 4 -
and perhaps a couple sets in a months time - and never see another
one.

Or a new tire goes flat - before the customer's car leaves the lot.
You throw the tire into the tank, and there are millions of tiny air
bubbles coming out of the tire - EVERYWHERE - through the sidewalls -
not from a poorly seated bead - and occaisionally even through the
tread. Sometimes it's a week or two later the tire comes back flat -
with the same type of massive generalized leakage.

Or a 2 year old tire has hardened up so badly that the tread is
chunking out, or the tire slides like a steel rim on pavement that is
anything close to damp, or warm. Can't pull away with a 4 cyl
automatic without the tires squeeling. Can't stop without the tires
howling - even at moderate speeds under gentle braking.And over 90% of
tread left.

That's BAD QUALITY that has NOTHING to do with "mounting technique"

A bad batch of fabric, a bad or poorly mixed batch of rubber, or a
tire builder with a hangover - who knows - but these problems DO occur
- and particularly with Chinese and some Eastern European products,
the "quality assurance" just is not there. At any stage of the
production/ispection of the product.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 10:39:43 -0400, "C. E. White"
> wrote:

>
>"N8N" > wrote in message
...
>On Aug 24, 8:17 pm, Tegger > wrote:
>
>> Damn straight. It's a rare shop that knows what the red and yellow
>> dots mean. I know that in practice it likely doesn't matter in 90+
>> percent of installations, but one would think that professional pride
>> would involve "doing it right."
>
>How many shops pay the guy mounting tires more than minimum wage? Do you
>think you can keep good people and not pay them?
>
>My son just quit a minimum wage job at Jiffy Lube because he felt he was the
>only one at that store that knew what he was doing and was willing to
>actually do it - so he was the one they kept busy, while the other minimum
>wage drones watched.
>

Can't generalize. My son worked at Just Tires for a while before he
moved on. Him and a couple others in that shop worked hard.
Others were slackers. It's almost always like that if management
allows it.
You don't know what you're getting until you get it.
BTW, Nate, my son says the dots are practically meaningless.
He's mounted and balanced many tires using the Hunter Road Force and
stopped paying attention to the dots. The Road Force machine results
hardly ever matched the dots.

--Vic

On 08/25/2011 09:48 AM, wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 06:36:28 -0700 (PDT), >
> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 24, 8:17 pm, > wrote:
>>> wrote :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Correct - the Korean Kumho tires are decent to good. The chinese
>>>> decent to CRAP.
>>>
>>> The Red Chinese produce quality work provided the West (or a free country
>>> like South Korea) does their design and QC for them.
>>>
>>>> The experience I had with Hankook tires a few years ago soured me on
>>>> even their Korean tires.
>>>
>>> I've had Hankooks for the last several years. They have been, and remain,
>>> excellent.
>>>
>>> Of course, mine have been competently mounted, something you can't say for
>>> 95% of tires out there...
>>
>> Damn straight. It's a rare shop that knows what the red and yellow
>> dots mean. I know that in practice it likely doesn't matter in 90+
>> percent of installations, but one would think that professional pride
>> would involve "doing it right."
>>
>> nate
> And all the dot orientation does is REDUCE the ammount of weight
> required to BALANCE the tire. It has NOTHING to do with making the
> tire round, or keeping the belts from shifting, or the cords from
> separating, or the tread from cracking, or the sidewalls from
> "breathing".
>
> I've had radial tire plys stretch and slip, belts shift and separate,
> treads separate from the carcase, steel belts break and protrude
> through the rubber, sidewalls split, sidewalls crack, and air come out
> through the sidewalls in thousands of places on the same tine - with
> NO impact damage, under-inflation, or other abose.
>
> I've had tires that balanced perfectly when installed require
> rebalancing after a week of driving - and the inbalance changed again
> within days - You could balance out the shake at 9 in the morning and
> it would be shaking again by noon. If not replaced, the tire would
> fail within weeks. Might get one out of 4 on a car, or 3 out of 4 -
> and perhaps a couple sets in a months time - and never see another
> one.
>
> Or a new tire goes flat - before the customer's car leaves the lot.
> You throw the tire into the tank, and there are millions of tiny air
> bubbles coming out of the tire - EVERYWHERE - through the sidewalls -
> not from a poorly seated bead - and occaisionally even through the
> tread. Sometimes it's a week or two later the tire comes back flat -
> with the same type of massive generalized leakage.
>
> Or a 2 year old tire has hardened up so badly that the tread is
> chunking out, or the tire slides like a steel rim on pavement that is
> anything close to damp, or warm. Can't pull away with a 4 cyl
> automatic without the tires squeeling. Can't stop without the tires
> howling - even at moderate speeds under gentle braking.And over 90% of
> tread left.
>
> That's BAD QUALITY that has NOTHING to do with "mounting technique"
>
> A bad batch of fabric, a bad or poorly mixed batch of rubber, or a
> tire builder with a hangover - who knows - but these problems DO occur
> - and particularly with Chinese and some Eastern European products,
> the "quality assurance" just is not there. At any stage of the
> production/ispection of the product.

absolutely. i forgot some of that early eastern euro stuff - i've had a
tire literally just fall to pieces of rubber crumb one time. made in
the czech republic iirc.

the multiple side wall leaks - that is an absolute corner cut. the tire
is supposed to be lined with a layer of butyl rubber [halobutyl to be
more precise]. but it's on the inside, and you'll never notice if it's
not there, so...


--
nomina rutrum rutrum