Toyota Corolla May Be Recalled over Steering Problem

>
> The good news is that we'll probably still have caster, camber and
> toe-in adjustments. What's SAI?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
______________
It's a difficult angle to explain, but pretty there's an invisible
line(like the earth's axis) around which a tire rotates as the wheel
is turned. Facing the car dead on, this steering axis is inclined so
that it angles in at the top(toward the middle of the car). This is
not to be confused with camber, which is the tilt of the TIRE itself
in(negative camber) or out(positive).

The past 20 years it's been called Steering-Axis-Inclination. Some
truckers and old-timers still call it Kingpin.

It's function is to create lift as you steer the wheels away from a
dead-ahead. The wheels want to go down into the ground - which is
impossible - so the nose lifts, just perceptibly, as you turn the
car's wheels. When you let go the steering wheel, or let it slide
through your hands, the car's weight forces the wheels back to a dead-
ahead(in an ideal world!). This is the same counterweight you feel
when you turn the steering wheel to make a turn -either in a no-PS or
a car with variable-PS and you're at moderate to high speeds.

That is the exact feeling - that communication between the steering/
suspension & the road - most of us "luddites" are afraid to lose
during the fly-by-wire transition.

-CC

On Feb 18, 5:57*pm, dsi1 > wrote:
>
> The good news is that we'll probably still have caster, camber and
> toe-in adjustments. What's SAI?
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
______________
It's a difficult angle to explain, but pretty there's an invisible
line(like the earth's axis) around which a tire rotates as the wheel
is turned. Facing the car dead on, this steering axis is inclined so
that it angles in at the top(toward the middle of the car). This is
not to be confused with camber, which is the tilt of the TIRE itself
in(negative camber) or out(positive).

The past 20 years it's been called Steering-Axis-Inclination. Some
truckers and old-timers still call it Kingpin.


It's function is to create lift as you steer the wheels away from a
dead-ahead. The wheels want to go down into the ground - which is
impossible - so the nose lifts, just perceptibly, as you turn the
car's wheels. When you let go the steering wheel, or let it slide
through your hands, the car's weight forces the wheels back to a
dead-
ahead(in an ideal world!). This is the same counterweight you feel
when you turn the steering wheel to make a turn -either in a no-PS or
a car with variable-PS and you're at moderate to high speeds. And in
overboosted PS(hydraulic OR electric) you feel less of that weight as
you move the wheel away form a dead-ahead. How, will someone please
enlighten me, is that a good thing? I want to KNOW when the wheels
are in a position other than straight-ahead. 60s-70s domestic full-
sizes were notorious for this numb-feel! Add in a few brewskis and
try negoitiating something like that(or a 09 Corolla) through the back-
country turns and see how U make out.


That is the exact feeling - that communication between the steering/
suspension & the road - most of us "luddites" are afraid to lose
during the fly-by-wire transition.


-CC

On Feb 18, 5:57*pm, dsi1 > wrote:

> The good news is that we'll probably still have caster, camber and
> toe-in adjustments. What's SAI?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
______________
It's a difficult angle to explain, but pretty there's an invisible
line(like the earth's axis) around which a tire rotates as the wheel
is turned. Facing the car dead on, this steering axis is inclined so
that it angles in at the top(toward the middle of the car). This is
not to be confused with camber, which is the tilt of the TIRE itself
in(negative camber) or out(positive).

The past 20 years it's been called Steering-Axis-Inclination. Some
truckers and old-timers still call it Kingpin.


It's function is to create lift as you steer the wheels away from a
dead-ahead. The wheels want to go down into the ground - which is
impossible - so the nose lifts, just perceptibly, as you turn the
car's wheels. When you let go the steering wheel, or let it slide
through your hands, the car's weight forces the wheels back to a
dead-
ahead(in an ideal world!). This is the same counterweight you feel
when you turn the steering wheel to make a turn -either in a no-PS or
a car with variable-PS and you're at moderate to high speeds. And
in
overboosted PS(hydraulic OR electric) you feel less of that weight as
you move the wheel away form a dead-ahead. How, will someone please
enlighten me, is that a good thing? I want to KNOW when the wheels
are in a position other than straight-ahead. 60s-70s domestic full-
sizes were notorious for this numb-feel! Add in a few brewskis and
try negoitiating something like that(or a 09 Corolla) through the
back-
country turns and see how U make out.


The strong centered feeling and self-return - that communication
between the steering/
suspension & the road - most of us "luddites" are afraid to lose
during the fly-by-wire transition.


-CC

On Feb 18, 6:14*pm, ChrisCoaster > wrote:
> On Feb 18, 5:57*pm, dsi1 > wrote:
>
> > The good news is that we'll probably still have caster, camber and
> > toe-in adjustments. What's SAI?
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> ______________
> It's a difficult angle to explain, but pretty there's an invisible
> line(like the earth's axis) around which a tire rotates as the wheel
> is turned. *Facing the car dead on, this steering axis is inclined so
> that it angles in at the top(toward the middle of the car). *This is
> not to be confused with camber, which is the tilt of the TIRE itself
> in(negative camber) or out(positive).
>
> The past 20 years it's been called Steering-Axis-Inclination. *Some
> truckers and old-timers still call it Kingpin.
>
> It's function is to create lift as you steer the wheels away from a
> dead-ahead. *The wheels want to go down into the ground - which is
> impossible - so the nose lifts, just perceptibly, as you turn the
> car's wheels. *When you let go the steering wheel, or let it slide
> through your hands, the car's weight forces the wheels back to a
> dead-
> ahead(in an ideal world!). *This is the same counterweight you feel
> when you turn the steering wheel to make a turn -either in a no-PS or
> a car with variable-PS *and you're at moderate to high speeds. *And
> in
> overboosted PS(hydraulic OR electric) you feel less of that weight as
> you move the wheel away form a dead-ahead. *How, will someone please
> enlighten me, is that a good thing? *I want to KNOW when the wheels
> are in a position other than straight-ahead. *60s-70s domestic full-
> sizes were notorious for this numb-feel! *Add in a few brewskis and
> try negoitiating something like that(or a 09 Corolla) through the
> back-
> country turns and see how U make out. *
>
> The strong centered feeling and self-return - that communication
> between the steering/
> suspension & the road - most of us "luddites" are afraid to lose
> during the fly-by-wire transition.
>
> -CC
____________
Correction: pretty MUCH there's an invisible line!! OMG I sound like
our last "president" when I type!
-CC

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:33:28 -0800, ransley wrote:

> On Feb 17, 10:01 pm, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク > wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:30:34 -0800, john wrote:
>> > Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
>> > There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!
>>
>> The only problems with the Corolla's steering is the nut behind the
>> wheel...
>>
>> Moron.
>
> Right , defend toyota at all costs eveybody is a dumb ass but you and
> toyota. You know even here on this group people asked questions on their
> corrola steering maybe a year ago long before anything was even though of
> as a defect. Just keep you head in the mud hachi and stay in denial.


Who says it's a defect?

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:27:47 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 23:01:57 -0500, Hachiroku ???? > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:30:34 -0800, john wrote:
>>
>>> Many owners have posted about steering problems here, and guess what?
>>> There is a problem and Corolla may be recalled!
>>
>>The only problems with the Corolla's steering is the nut behind the
>>wheel...
>>
>>Moron.
>
> Yes, I'm sure that's the case.

Ever driven a car with electrically enhanced steering?

My bet is for one it's the first Corolla the complainers have ever owned,
which takes some getting used to all by itself if you've never owned a
Corolla, and the electrically assisted PS, that is a different aniimal all
of it's own.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:02:26 -0500, dr_jeff wrote:

> Tegger wrote:
>> dr_jeff > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>> john > wrote in
>>>>
>>>> :
>>>> :
>>>>> Veered sharply at highway speeds? Must be junk design.
>>>>
>>>> Or an unsubstantiated allegation, which most of these "complaints" are
>>>> at this point.
>>> That's true of the brake problems.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's also true of the new PS thing. The NHTSA has said so.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Apparently, Toyota and the NHTSA
>>> failed to address the reports and take appropriate action, leading to a
>>> big mess.
>>
>>
>> The "big mess" is in the media alone. So far, ONE death confirmed as
>> being specifically due to a stuck gas pedal.
>
> How do you confirm that a death is due to a stuck gas pedal? Do you have
> to call in to 9-1-1 and say that you're going to die from a stuck gas
> pedal? A stuck gas pedal is a really hard thing to confirm.

Not really. The ECU stores throttle position information and engine revs
for something like three cycles. It would be very easy to determine which
deaths were caused by a fault in the system and which were just poor
driving habits.

Nobody has really presented any hard evidence. When someone does I might
change my stance on Toyota's Mea Culpa.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:03:58 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote:

> (Cross posting deleted, automatically)
>
>> OK, then we have NO deaths confirmed as being due to a stuck gas pedal.
>>
>> What a witch-hunt????
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>
> Can we assume you have not seen the news lately, if that is what you
> choose to believe.
>
> Search "Toyota Class Action Litigation" and you will find numerous
> listings like this:
> Law firms form consortium in Toyota recall litigation Posted On: Feb. 11,
> 2010 2:24 PM CENTRAL | Add a comment Roberto Ceniceros
> SAN DIEGO—About 25 law firms seeking class action status for lawsuits
> filed against Toyota Motor Corp. in more than 20 states have formed a
> consortium, an attorney coordinating the group said Thursday.
>
>
> "Approximately 20 other lawsuits seeking class action status on behalf of
> consumers also have been filed against the automaker because of
> accelerator problems that have led to the recall of more than 8 million
> automobiles.
>
>
> Those 40 suits do not include individual personal injury claims that
> consumers have filed against Toyota.
>
>
> Tim Howard, coordinator of the Attorneys Toyota Action Consortium, said a
> court hearing on whether all the class action cases will be consolidated
> is expected March 25 before a multidistrict panel in U.S. District Court
> in San Diego.
>
>
> Mr. Howard is a professor of law and policy at Northeastern University and
> an attorney at Howard Associates P.A. in Tallahassee, Fla.
>
>
> The lawsuits seeking class action status share common allegations that
> consumers lost value in and the use of their cars because of defective
> parts that sparked the recall.
>
>
> Total damages sought in the consolidated class actions could exceed $2
> billion, based on a calculation that millions of cars lost hundreds of
> dollars in value and their owners lost the use of their cars while they
> were unsafe to drive or were being repaired, Mr. Howard said.
>
>
> The value is diminished “because once someone knows your car might be a
> poltergeist car, people don’t have to take that kind of risk,” Mr.
> Howard said. “They can find other cars on the market. Even if they solve
> (the problems), that lingering fear is going to affect the consciousness
> of the consumer.”
>
>
> Toyota also is facing securities-related class action litigation.
>
>
> For example, the San Diego-based law firm of Coughlin Stoia Geller Rudman
> & Robbins L.L.P. said Monday that it had filed a lawsuit in the U.S.
> District Court for the Central District of California on behalf of people
> who purchased Toyota securities between Aug. 4, 2009, and Feb. 2, 2010.
>
>
> The complaint alleges that Toyota and some of its officers and directors
> misled investors by failing to disclose design defects, causing its stock
> to trade at artificially inflated prices during the class period.


And no where is data taken from the ECU mentioned.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:34:57 -0800, jim beam wrote:

>> OK, then we have NO deaths confirmed as being due to a stuck gas pedal.
>>
>> What a witch-hunt.
>>
>>
> you should be able to recover the last 30 seconds of data from the engine
> computer - that should tell you speed, throttle position, etc. and whether
> throttle position stayed fixed.

Thank you. There are some thinking people here...

(God, Jim, ever think I'd be patting you on the back? )

wrote in
:

> Myself, I think most of the
> problem is there is likely too much assist at highway speeds, and
> it needs to be toned down a bit.



There is NO assist at highway speeds. Assist is NOT NEEDED at highway
speeds. Assist picks up at speeds where you might actually have to crank
the wheel around with some authority, like at 10mph around a left-hand
turn, or when maneuvering into a parking space.

This whole matter is ludicrously insane, a bizarre Alice-In-Wonderland
nut-fest; powered, I suspect, by the tort bar, and by the unions (who hate
Toyota with the sort of red-haze death-lust that Ted Bundy must have felt
for his victims).

ANYbody who knows the SLIGHTEST thing about ANY modern power-assisted
steering system cannot help but be appalled by the mystical "evil spirits"
nonsense surrounding this current craze. I am not quite certain WHY this is
happening, but I AM quite certain that it is /wholly/ without foundation.



--
Tegger