Tire Pressure Monitor

Dad wrote:
> "John S." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Luke wrote:
> >> I have a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V (w/ Corvette Z06 LS-6 engine). Recently, I
> >> had
> >> my tires rotated, and now the display for the tire pressure is wrong. It
> >> reports the pressure for the back tires as the front tires. The Cadillac
> >> dealer wants $15 to "recalibate" the system, but I'd like to do myself. I
> >> believe this system is identical to the one of the Corvette. Does anyone
> >> know how to recalibrate the tire pressure monitoring system? Thanks in
> >> advacne.
> >
> > A tire pressure sensing system that needs recalibration with tire
> > changes seems like a lot of bother and expense. A much simpler, less
> > expensive and more reliable option would be a good tire pressure gauge
> > stored on the glove compartment.
> >
> Good idea, how often do you check your tire pressure?

How often do I check tire pressure - every time I fill up. And I'm
able to run the low profile wide tread tires on my car at least 10,000
miles longer than I would otherwise. And I rotate them regularly.


> Not a day goes by
> while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having that
> gage in the compartment does little good unless used.

True, but the same can be said for a pressure monitoring system. For
many drivers it will probably end up being another check engine light
to be ignored.

> With runflat tires the
> side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
> pressure.

Anyone who thinks they can visually estimate 4 or 5 psi pressure loss
with a regular radial tire is kidding themselves. Sure you can tell if
a tire is at 20 psi when it should be at 35, but by then the damage is
done. A simple pressure guage is apparently far more reliable that the
built-in pressure sensing systems. How does the pressure monitoring
system warn the average owner that it needs to be recalibrated to give
a meaningful reading. That is a serious limitation for most drivers.

> Since I like a car to run at peak tune, that includes tire
> pressure, it is a simple matter to check them while running down the road. I
> check my tire pressure nearly every time I drive the car. It took very
> little time to read the correct way to recalibrate the sensors and it takes
> less time that checking the pressure with a gage. On a trip through the
> Rockies I hit a sharp stone very hard and was able to bring up the tire
> pressure and watch it until I was where I could get safely off the road and
> out of traffic to check for damage. At that point the cost of the pressure
> sensors was cheap to say the least.
>
> Another system I see coming on line looks even better. It senses the
> rotating radius of all of the tires, ties into the braking and traction
> control system, and if it varies enough it will bring up a "low tire
> pressure" message on your DIC. By utilizing the systems already in place and
> working with the programming it brings about a very good and inexpensive
> warning system.
>
> I miss my Cadillacs - ;-(
>
> --
> Dad
> 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
> 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

"Dad" > wrote:

>Another system I see coming on line looks even better. It senses the
>rotating radius of all of the tires, ties into the braking and traction
>control system, and if it varies enough it will bring up a "low tire
>pressure" message on your DIC. By utilizing the systems already in place and
>working with the programming it brings about a very good and inexpensive
>warning system.

Some of the manufacturers (Pontiac is one that comes to mind on the
Bonneville) are already using such a system: it is easy to do on a car
with ABS because you already have rotational sensors at each wheel -
all you need is the proper software code to process the information
and display it (uou look for differential in the number of pulses per
mile from the ABS wheel sensora, which tanslates to a difference in
diameter of the tires from one side to another, the theory being that
most of the time not all tires are low on air pressure at the same
time)..

Unfortunately, the NHTSA doesb't think such a speed sensor system is
accurate enough - in a new safety mandate they haded down a few months
ago that, if memory serves me correctly takes effect in 2010, that
will require tire pressure monitoring on all cars. The NHTSA has
specifically said that rotation sensor-based systems will NOT be
acceptable.

>I miss my Cadillacs - ;-(

I feel your pain - I miss my old Cadillac too. But lordy the new ones
are so butt-ugly - last decent looking Cadillac was the
last-generation Seville. I would not take a CTS if someone gave me
one.

Regards,
Bill Bowen
Sacramento, CA

"John S." > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Dad wrote:
>> "John S." > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > Luke wrote:
>> >> I have a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V (w/ Corvette Z06 LS-6 engine). Recently,
>> >> I
>> >> had
>> >> my tires rotated, and now the display for the tire pressure is wrong.
>> >> It
>> >> reports the pressure for the back tires as the front tires. The
>> >> Cadillac
>> >> dealer wants $15 to "recalibate" the system, but I'd like to do
>> >> myself. I
>> >> believe this system is identical to the one of the Corvette. Does
>> >> anyone
>> >> know how to recalibrate the tire pressure monitoring system? Thanks in
>> >> advacne.
>> >
>> > A tire pressure sensing system that needs recalibration with tire
>> > changes seems like a lot of bother and expense. A much simpler, less
>> > expensive and more reliable option would be a good tire pressure gauge
>> > stored on the glove compartment.
>> >
>> Good idea, how often do you check your tire pressure?
>
> How often do I check tire pressure - every time I fill up. And I'm
> able to run the low profile wide tread tires on my car at least 10,000
> miles longer than I would otherwise. And I rotate them regularly.
>
You are rare indeed, seldom if ever have I seen anyone check their tires
when they fill up, but then I've only been driving for 50+ years. How wide
is wide? The 285-35-19 that I run will go way past the estimated mileage as
they show on the tread depth right now for 11,000 and I don't rotate. Even
when I worked in a service station in the early sixties we had to ask if the
customer wanted his tires checked. Very few checked the tires and just a few
had you check the oil.
>
>> Not a day goes by
>> while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having that
>> gage in the compartment does little good unless used.
>
> True, but the same can be said for a pressure monitoring system. For
> many drivers it will probably end up being another check engine light
> to be ignored.
>
So your contention is that those that ignore a trouble message will be using
a tire pressure gage, get real. Very hard to ignore and it don't shut off by
it's self.

>> With runflat tires the
>> side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
>> pressure.
>
> Anyone who thinks they can visually estimate 4 or 5 psi pressure loss
> with a regular radial tire is kidding themselves.

Didn't even suggest that anyone could judge the actual pressure in a regular
radial tire by it's looks, my reason for making that statement is because
the runflats don't show any signs of low pressure at all, regardless of the
amount. I see that you have had no experience with a runflat tire and
therefore no experience with a pressure monitoring system.

>Sure you can tell if
> a tire is at 20 psi when it should be at 35, but by then the damage is
> done. A simple pressure guage is apparently far more reliable that the
> built-in pressure sensing systems.

How do you know that? As far as the accuracy of a hand held tire gage,
forget it. If you take most of them out and check the same tire with
different gages of the same make they will give you varied readings. The
only thing you know is that the pressure is similar in all four tires by
using one gage.

>How does the pressure monitoring
> system warn the average owner that it needs to be recalibrated to give
> a meaningful reading. That is a serious limitation for most drivers.

Actually the Corvette system seldom needs "recalibrating" if ever, but it
throws a warning if the readings vary considerably between all four tires.
The pressure seems to be monitored very well as checked by an industrial
dial pressure gage with a tire chuck attached, not the $1.97 trash that most
people use. Of the 4 Corvettes I've had with pressure monitors I've
recalibrated them maybe a half dozen time, and all of those were when I was
mounting racing tires on different rims with diffrent sensors and/or
switching back to street tires. After the first time they would set
themselves and not require recalibration because they went to the same
location.


--
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
Get wasted all the time
Have the time of your life

"William H. Bowen" > wrote in message
...
> "Dad" > wrote:
snip
> Unfortunately, the NHTSA doesb't think such a speed sensor system is
> accurate enough - in a new safety mandate they haded down a few months
> ago that, if memory serves me correctly takes effect in 2010, that
> will require tire pressure monitoring on all cars. The NHTSA has
> specifically said that rotation sensor-based systems will NOT be
> acceptable.
>
>>I miss my Cadillacs - ;-(
>
> I feel your pain - I miss my old Cadillac too. But lordy the new ones
> are so butt-ugly - last decent looking Cadillac was the
> last-generation Seville. I would not take a CTS if someone gave me
> one.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Bowen
Even at my age my butt looks better than the CTS. My last Seville STS was a
sad disappointment. Had it less the a year, still waiting for them to make
something exciting again. May have to get a Z06 after the price gougers get
done and just drive 2 Corvettes.

--

Life is a sexually transmitted condition that is always fatal.

Dad wrote:
> "John S." > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Dad wrote:
> >> "John S." > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Luke wrote:
> >> >> I have a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V (w/ Corvette Z06 LS-6 engine). Recently,
> >> >> I
> >> >> had
> >> >> my tires rotated, and now the display for the tire pressure is wrong.
> >> >> It
> >> >> reports the pressure for the back tires as the front tires. The
> >> >> Cadillac
> >> >> dealer wants $15 to "recalibate" the system, but I'd like to do
> >> >> myself. I
> >> >> believe this system is identical to the one of the Corvette. Does
> >> >> anyone
> >> >> know how to recalibrate the tire pressure monitoring system? Thanks in
> >> >> advacne.
> >> >
> >> > A tire pressure sensing system that needs recalibration with tire
> >> > changes seems like a lot of bother and expense. A much simpler, less
> >> > expensive and more reliable option would be a good tire pressure gauge
> >> > stored on the glove compartment.
> >> >
> >> Good idea, how often do you check your tire pressure?
> >
> > How often do I check tire pressure - every time I fill up. And I'm
> > able to run the low profile wide tread tires on my car at least 10,000
> > miles longer than I would otherwise. And I rotate them regularly.
> >
> You are rare indeed, seldom if ever have I seen anyone check their tires
> when they fill up, but then I've only been driving for 50+ years. How wide
> is wide? The 285-35-19 that I run will go way past the estimated mileage as
> they show on the tread depth right now for 11,000 and I don't rotate. Even
> when I worked in a service station in the early sixties we had to ask if the
> customer wanted his tires checked. Very few checked the tires and just a few
> had you check the oil.

Pressure checking is not so rare at least in my area.

> >
> >> Not a day goes by
> >> while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having that
> >> gage in the compartment does little good unless used.
> >
> > True, but the same can be said for a pressure monitoring system. For
> > many drivers it will probably end up being another check engine light
> > to be ignored.
> >
> So your contention is that those that ignore a trouble message will be using
> a tire pressure gage, get real.

Nope, my point is that a pressure warning system is a tool that could
be useful, but will be ignored by many and will become little more than
another expensive automated gadget t ignore or figure out how to switch
off. A pressure gauge will be as effective an automated warning system
for most drivers. And it will be a whole lot cheaper.

> Very hard to ignore and it don't shut off by
> it's self.

Unfortunately there are a lot of drivers who have conditioned
themselves to routinely ignore the check engine and engine warning
lamps as well as the text messages that scroll across the dashboard
display. Like the many people who continue to run out of gas after the
needle has passed into the orange area AND the red warning light has
gone on.


>
> >> With runflat tires the
> >> side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
> >> pressure.
> >
> > Anyone who thinks they can visually estimate 4 or 5 psi pressure loss
> > with a regular radial tire is kidding themselves.
>
> Didn't even suggest that anyone could judge the actual pressure in a regular
> radial tire by it's looks, my reason for making that statement is because
> the runflats don't show any signs of low pressure at all, regardless of the
> amount. I see that you have had no experience with a runflat tire and
> therefore no experience with a pressure monitoring system.

Quoting you: ...are stiff enough you can't visually "gage" the tire
pressure. It is not possible to visually gauge tire pressure with any
reliability under any circumstance period.


>
> >Sure you can tell if
> > a tire is at 20 psi when it should be at 35, but by then the damage is
> > done. A simple pressure guage is apparently far more reliable that the
> > built-in pressure sensing systems.
>
> How do you know that? As far as the accuracy of a hand held tire gage,
> forget it. If you take most of them out and check the same tire with
> different gages of the same make they will give you varied readings. The
> only thing you know is that the pressure is similar in all four tires by
> using one gage.

Really now. If handheld gauges are that inaccurate then how useful or
accurate can we expect a pressure sensing system to be. Remember, it
is nothing more than analog sensors rigged to a digital display. And
how can a driver rely on such a system if it goes out of calibration
with no warning. I've checked several different handheld gauges and
they are plenty close enough for maintaining reasonably accurate
pressure.


>
> >How does the pressure monitoring
> > system warn the average owner that it needs to be recalibrated to give
> > a meaningful reading. That is a serious limitation for most drivers.
>
> Actually the Corvette system seldom needs "recalibrating" if ever, but it
> throws a warning if the readings vary considerably between all four tires.
> The pressure seems to be monitored very well as checked by an industrial
> dial pressure gage with a tire chuck attached, not the $1.97 trash that most
> people use. Of the 4 Corvettes I've had with pressure monitors I've
> recalibrated them maybe a half dozen time, and all of those were when I was
> mounting racing tires on different rims with diffrent sensors and/or
> switching back to street tires. After the first time they would set
> themselves and not require recalibration because they went to the same
> location.

Your experience does not appear to be the same as the caddy owner -
strange isn't it. Come to think of it I have never had a handheld
analog gauge go out of calibration.


> Life is a waste of time
> Time is a waste of life
> Get wasted all the time
> Have the time of your life

That's an "unusual" way of dealing with life, wouldn't you say?

"John S." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Pressure checking is not so rare at least in my area.
>
I'd have to see that to believe it.
>> >
>> >> Not a day goes by
>> >> while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having
>> >> that
>> >> gage in the compartment does little good unless used.
>> >
>> > True, but the same can be said for a pressure monitoring system. For
>> > many drivers it will probably end up being another check engine light
>> > to be ignored.
>> >
>> So your contention is that those that ignore a trouble message will be
>> using
>> a tire pressure gage, get real.
>
> Nope, my point is that a pressure warning system is a tool that could
> be useful, but will be ignored by many and will become little more than
> another expensive automated gadget t ignore or figure out how to switch
> off. A pressure gauge will be as effective an automated warning system
> for most drivers. And it will be a whole lot cheaper.
>
Ah yes, it is cheaper and the pressure monitering system will be very hard
to remove cheaply from any car that is built with it in the system. I assume
that you will not buy a car after the required pressure sensors are in the
2010 models? Actually seems like your point is that you're cheap and the
government can't change that by mandating pressure sensors. By the way they
are also trying to get the runflats mandatory are you going to resist that
also or just the pressure sensors?

>> Very hard to ignore and it don't shut off by
>> it's self.
>
> Unfortunately there are a lot of drivers who have conditioned
> themselves to routinely ignore the check engine and engine warning
> lamps as well as the text messages that scroll across the dashboard
> display. Like the many people who continue to run out of gas after the
> needle has passed into the orange area AND the red warning light has
> gone on.
>
Wow, you got that down pat, I've never seen that orange area or the red
light, what happens next? You are still suggesting these people will use a
tire gage over reacting to a warning light?
>
>> >> With runflat tires the
>> >> side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
>> >> pressure.
>> >
>> > Anyone who thinks they can visually estimate 4 or 5 psi pressure loss
>> > with a regular radial tire is kidding themselves.
>>
>> Didn't even suggest that anyone could judge the actual pressure in a
>> regular
>> radial tire by it's looks, my reason for making that statement is because
>> the runflats don't show any signs of low pressure at all, regardless of
>> the
>> amount. I see that you have had no experience with a runflat tire and
>> therefore no experience with a pressure monitoring system.
>
> Quoting you: ...are stiff enough you can't visually "gage" the tire
> pressure. It is not possible to visually gauge tire pressure with any
> reliability under any circumstance period.
>
Now come on, is it the thumpty thump that tells you a tire is flat? Or, big
question here, can you see that the rim is very close to the ground or the
tire has a much larger bulge in the side, (runflat not included), than do
the others on the vehicle? Actually you can see it, you can hear it, you can
feel it, and last but not least, you can smell them when they go flat, all
of this is under certain conditions of course.
>
>>
>> >Sure you can tell if
>> > a tire is at 20 psi when it should be at 35, but by then the damage is
>> > done. A simple pressure guage is apparently far more reliable that the
>> > built-in pressure sensing systems.
>>
>> How do you know that? As far as the accuracy of a hand held tire gage,
>> forget it. If you take most of them out and check the same tire with
>> different gages of the same make they will give you varied readings. The
>> only thing you know is that the pressure is similar in all four tires by
>> using one gage.
>
> Really now. If handheld gauges are that inaccurate then how useful or
> accurate can we expect a pressure sensing system to be. Remember, it
> is nothing more than analog sensors rigged to a digital display. And
> how can a driver rely on such a system if it goes out of calibration
> with no warning. I've checked several different handheld gauges and
> they are plenty close enough for maintaining reasonably accurate
> pressure.
>
Did you ever hear about offsets for tweaking the accuracy of the interface
between a electronic component and its sensor? My assumption is that if a
system goes out with no warning that it is the same as any other aspect of
life, you deal with it. Why do you think they go out without warning, I
don't remember that being the issue? Nothing was said about that, only when
his tires were rotated and the revenue enhancement guru kicked in.
>
>> >How does the pressure monitoring
>> > system warn the average owner that it needs to be recalibrated to give
>> > a meaningful reading. That is a serious limitation for most drivers.
>>
>> Actually the Corvette system seldom needs "recalibrating" if ever, but it
>> throws a warning if the readings vary considerably between all four
>> tires.
>> The pressure seems to be monitored very well as checked by an industrial
>> dial pressure gage with a tire chuck attached, not the $1.97 trash that
>> most
>> people use. Of the 4 Corvettes I've had with pressure monitors I've
>> recalibrated them maybe a half dozen time, and all of those were when I
>> was
>> mounting racing tires on different rims with diffrent sensors and/or
>> switching back to street tires. After the first time they would set
>> themselves and not require recalibration because they went to the same
>> location.
>
> Your experience does not appear to be the same as the caddy owner -
> strange isn't it. Come to think of it I have never had a handheld
> analog gauge go out of calibration.
>
You should use it more, but then close is good enough as you seem to think.
All of our analog gages were calibrated on a regular basis and they do/did
fail, but then I dealt with precision gages and if you do it would surprise
me. My direct reference was to the Corvette as it is cross posted, I would
expect you to realize that. In reality the Cadillac owner was talking about
them wanting an added cost figure for resetting his sensors. My first reply
was how to do it yourself. You are the one that is fixated on the
usefulness/value of the pressure monitoring system.
>
>> Life is a waste of time
>> Time is a waste of life
>> Get wasted all the time
>> Have the time of your life
>
> That's an "unusual" way of dealing with life, wouldn't you say?
>
Can be and if that's the way you might choose to live, that is your choice.

--

Life is a sexually transmitted condition that is always fatal.

Dad wrote:


>
> Good idea, how often do you check your tire pressure? Not a day goes by
> while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having that
> gage in the compartment does little good unless used. With runflat tires the
> side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
> pressure. Since I like a car to run at peak tune, that includes tire
> pressure, it is a simple matter to check them while running down the road. I
> check my tire pressure nearly every time I drive the car. It took very
> little time to read the correct way to recalibrate the sensors and it takes
> less time that checking the pressure with a gage. On a trip through the
> Rockies I hit a sharp stone very hard and was able to bring up the tire
> pressure and watch it until I was where I could get safely off the road and
> out of traffic to check for damage. At that point the cost of the pressure
> sensors was cheap to say the least.
>
> Another system I see coming on line looks even better. It senses the
> rotating radius of all of the tires, ties into the braking and traction
> control system, and if it varies enough it will bring up a "low tire
> pressure" message on your DIC. By utilizing the systems already in place and
> working with the programming it brings about a very good and inexpensive
> warning system.
>
This system is already in use. I first saw it on the 97 Grand Prix. It
was the same on my 2000 Grand Prix and is in place on my 2005 Grand
Prix. Just a simple system that uses the abs wheel sensor to detect a
difference in the rotational speed of the wheel compared to the others.
I suppose if all tires were low to the same degree it wouldn't detect
it. Had it warn of a low tire (nail) once so I guess it works.

Dave
WI

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 11:15:53 -0400, "Dad" > wrote:

>
>"John S." > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>> Luke wrote:
>>> I have a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V (w/ Corvette Z06 LS-6 engine). Recently, I
>>> had
>>> my tires rotated, and now the display for the tire pressure is wrong. It
>>> reports the pressure for the back tires as the front tires. The Cadillac
>>> dealer wants $15 to "recalibate" the system, but I'd like to do myself. I
>>> believe this system is identical to the one of the Corvette. Does anyone
>>> know how to recalibrate the tire pressure monitoring system? Thanks in
>>> advacne.
>>
>> A tire pressure sensing system that needs recalibration with tire
>> changes seems like a lot of bother and expense. A much simpler, less
>> expensive and more reliable option would be a good tire pressure gauge
>> stored on the glove compartment.
>>
>Good idea, how often do you check your tire pressure? Not a day goes by
>while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having that
>gage in the compartment does little good unless used. With runflat tires the
>side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
>pressure. Since I like a car to run at peak tune, that includes tire
>pressure, it is a simple matter to check them while running down the road. I
>check my tire pressure nearly every time I drive the car. It took very
>little time to read the correct way to recalibrate the sensors and it takes
>less time that checking the pressure with a gage. On a trip through the
>Rockies I hit a sharp stone very hard and was able to bring up the tire
>pressure and watch it until I was where I could get safely off the road and
>out of traffic to check for damage. At that point the cost of the pressure
>sensors was cheap to say the least.
>
>Another system I see coming on line looks even better. It senses the
>rotating radius of all of the tires, ties into the braking and traction
>control system, and if it varies enough it will bring up a "low tire
>pressure" message on your DIC. By utilizing the systems already in place and
>working with the programming it brings about a very good and inexpensive
>warning system.
>
>I miss my Cadillacs - ;-(


My mom's 2000 Regal has that low tire light system. The one that
utilizes the ABS and TC system. Not sure if my new car, a 2006 Grand
Prix, will have the actual pressure displayed or just a low tire
warning...

Why? Simply because it's a Cadillac


On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:48:00 GMT, "shiden_kai" >
wrote:

>Barb wrote:
>
>> You must have a real low life money hungry moron for a dealer. We've
>> had the very same thing happen twice. When we went back to the dealer
>> the service greeter appologized profusely. He then got some kind of a
>> little hand held device and within two minutes had them all back in
>> sync.
>
>You might be right if the dealer had performed the rotation, at our
>dealership, resetting the tire pressure monitor is part of the rotation,
>but we do charge extra. If the op got the tires rotated somewhere,
>why on earth should a dealership have to recalibrate his TPM for
>free?
>
>Ian
>

Dad wrote:
> "John S." > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Pressure checking is not so rare at least in my area.
> >
> I'd have to see that to believe it.
> >> >
> >> >> Not a day goes by
> >> >> while driving do I not see tires that are under inflated, so having
> >> >> that
> >> >> gage in the compartment does little good unless used.
> >> >
> >> > True, but the same can be said for a pressure monitoring system. For
> >> > many drivers it will probably end up being another check engine light
> >> > to be ignored.
> >> >
> >> So your contention is that those that ignore a trouble message will be
> >> using
> >> a tire pressure gage, get real.
> >
> > Nope, my point is that a pressure warning system is a tool that could
> > be useful, but will be ignored by many and will become little more than
> > another expensive automated gadget t ignore or figure out how to switch
> > off. A pressure gauge will be as effective an automated warning system
> > for most drivers. And it will be a whole lot cheaper.
> >
> Ah yes, it is cheaper and the pressure monitering system will be very hard
> to remove cheaply from any car that is built with it in the system. I assume
> that you will not buy a car after the required pressure sensors are in the
> 2010 models? Actually seems like your point is that you're cheap and the
> government can't change that by mandating pressure sensors. By the way they
> are also trying to get the runflats mandatory are you going to resist that
> also or just the pressure sensors?


Nope, didn't say that did I would stop buying cars now did I. Truly an
asinine statement for you to make wasn't it.

I was also stating the obvious - that there are a lot of drivers who
routinely ignore important information fed to them via the dashboard.
Just because the latest warning system has to do with tires is no
reason to believe their behaviour will change one whit.

>
> >> Very hard to ignore and it don't shut off by
> >> it's self.
> >
> > Unfortunately there are a lot of drivers who have conditioned
> > themselves to routinely ignore the check engine and engine warning
> > lamps as well as the text messages that scroll across the dashboard
> > display. Like the many people who continue to run out of gas after the
> > needle has passed into the orange area AND the red warning light has
> > gone on.
> >
> Wow, you got that down pat, I've never seen that orange area or the red
> light, what happens next? You are still suggesting these people will use a
> tire gage over reacting to a warning light?

What happens next should be obvious. The engine stops. I can't tell
you the last time I ran out of gas, but there are plenty of people who
do. As I've restated several times now those people will ignore useful
information provided them no matter the subject. I can't tell you
why...maybe unlike you and me they don't appreciate the consequences of
ignoring warning messages. Will they use a tire pressure gauge if it is
in the glove compartment - most likely not. But having an unused
analog gauge in the glove compartment is a whole lot cheaper than an
unused analog tire pressure monitoring system installed in the car.

> >
> >> >> With runflat tires the
> >> >> side walls are stiff enough that you can't visually "gage" the tire
> >> >> pressure.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone who thinks they can visually estimate 4 or 5 psi pressure loss
> >> > with a regular radial tire is kidding themselves.
> >>
> >> Didn't even suggest that anyone could judge the actual pressure in a
> >> regular
> >> radial tire by it's looks, my reason for making that statement is because
> >> the runflats don't show any signs of low pressure at all, regardless of
> >> the
> >> amount. I see that you have had no experience with a runflat tire and
> >> therefore no experience with a pressure monitoring system.
> >
> > Quoting you: ...are stiff enough you can't visually "gage" the tire
> > pressure. It is not possible to visually gauge tire pressure with any
> > reliability under any circumstance period.
> >
> Now come on, is it the thumpty thump that tells you a tire is flat? Or, big
> question here, can you see that the rim is very close to the ground or the
> tire has a much larger bulge in the side, (runflat not included), than do
> the others on the vehicle? Actually you can see it, you can hear it, you can
> feel it, and last but not least, you can smell them when they go flat, all
> of this is under certain conditions of course.

Unfortunately it is the thumpty thump or the loss of steering control
will be the first warning sign most drivers will heed. Wish driver
behaviour was more defensive, but in my experience most drivers react
to the consequences of problems rather than anticipating them.


> >
> >>
> >> >Sure you can tell if
> >> > a tire is at 20 psi when it should be at 35, but by then the damage is
> >> > done. A simple pressure guage is apparently far more reliable that the
> >> > built-in pressure sensing systems.
> >>
> >> How do you know that? As far as the accuracy of a hand held tire gage,
> >> forget it. If you take most of them out and check the same tire with
> >> different gages of the same make they will give you varied readings. The
> >> only thing you know is that the pressure is similar in all four tires by
> >> using one gage.

If you don't believe what should be obvious, just try a blind test.

> >
> > Really now. If handheld gauges are that inaccurate then how useful or
> > accurate can we expect a pressure sensing system to be. Remember, it
> > is nothing more than analog sensors rigged to a digital display. And
> > how can a driver rely on such a system if it goes out of calibration
> > with no warning. I've checked several different handheld gauges and
> > they are plenty close enough for maintaining reasonably accurate
> > pressure.
> >
> Did you ever hear about offsets for tweaking the accuracy of the interface
> between a electronic component and its sensor? My assumption is that if a
> system goes out with no warning that it is the same as any other aspect of
> life, you deal with it. Why do you think they go out without warning, I
> don't remember that being the issue? Nothing was said about that, only when
> his tires were rotated and the revenue enhancement guru kicked in.
> >
> >> >How does the pressure monitoring
> >> > system warn the average owner that it needs to be recalibrated to give
> >> > a meaningful reading. That is a serious limitation for most drivers.
> >>
> >> Actually the Corvette system seldom needs "recalibrating" if ever, but it
> >> throws a warning if the readings vary considerably between all four
> >> tires.
> >> The pressure seems to be monitored very well as checked by an industrial
> >> dial pressure gage with a tire chuck attached, not the $1.97 trash that
> >> most
> >> people use. Of the 4 Corvettes I've had with pressure monitors I've
> >> recalibrated them maybe a half dozen time, and all of those were when I
> >> was
> >> mounting racing tires on different rims with diffrent sensors and/or
> >> switching back to street tires. After the first time they would set
> >> themselves and not require recalibration because they went to the same
> >> location.
> >
> > Your experience does not appear to be the same as the caddy owner -
> > strange isn't it. Come to think of it I have never had a handheld
> > analog gauge go out of calibration.
> >
> You should use it more, but then close is good enough as you seem to think.
> All of our analog gages were calibrated on a regular basis and they do/did
> fail, but then I dealt with precision gages and if you do it would surprise
> me. My direct reference was to the Corvette as it is cross posted, I would
> expect you to realize that. In reality the Cadillac owner was talking about
> them wanting an added cost figure for resetting his sensors. My first reply
> was how to do it yourself. You are the one that is fixated on the
> usefulness/value of the pressure monitoring system.
> >
> >> Life is a waste of time
> >> Time is a waste of life
> >> Get wasted all the time
> >> Have the time of your life
> >
> > That's an "unusual" way of dealing with life, wouldn't you say?
> >
> Can be and if that's the way you might choose to live, that is your choice.

It would appear to be your choice in responsible lifestyle given that
it appeared at the end of your post.

>
> --
>
> Life is a sexually transmitted condition that is always fatal.